Still Becoming One
Still Becoming One
Politics Is Killing Our Family: Building Bridges or Boundaries
How do you keep the peace at Thanksgiving dinner when political differences arise? As we approach the pivotal 2024 election, we dive into the divisive topic of how to engage in compassionate and understanding discussions, even when opinions clash.
Family dynamics during politically charged times can be tricky to navigate. We've seen too many families torn apart by the enmity and contempt of rival politics. Sometimes, we need to build bridges of compassionate listening and other times; we need to build boundaries. Join us from both sides of the aisle as we navigate this tricky situation.
(mentioned in this episode- The Power of Saying No: 5 Steps to Set Up Boundaries that Stick)
Welcome to the Still Becoming One podcast. We are Brad and Kate.
Kate:In our more than 20 years of marriage, we've survived both dark times and experienced restoration.
Brad:Now as a licensed marriage counselor and relationship coaches. We help couples to regain hope and joy.
Kate:We invite you to journey with us, as we are still becoming one.
Brad:Let's start the conversation. Hello everyone, Welcome back to Still Becoming One.
Kate:Yes, welcome back. I feel like we've been gone.
Brad:Yes, we have, it's been a busy fall but, so glad to be back and talking to everybody.
Kate:Yeah. So, you know, I'm like trying to think what have we been doing? I not that people want to know, I don't remember, it's just been busy. We've had some sickness.
Brad:Yeah.
Kate:You know just all the things. Kids go back to school and they bring it all around and they get it. Yep, so that and I think, yeah, just really busy, but we are excited to be here this morning.
Brad:We are. There's a lot of things been going on and yet we're just super happy to be talking marriage with all of you guys and family. And so we can't get away from the fact that we are I think it's 10 days, as we're recording this away from the 2024 election and we thought this was actually a perfect time to talk about this thing that we hear in our clients, honestly, quite a lot, is how divided people are feeling from their families because of politics.
Kate:Yeah, I was thinking about that like growing up, cause Brad and I are in our late forties. Do you remember that being? You know, I think there's a lot of talk in general about things are so different. So I'm curious like do you remember growing up feeling of course we're kids so it's different, but like feeling like everybody was so divided?
Brad:No, I don't, and I you know. I've seen some like clips of how political discourse has changed and sure. Yes, it did get ugly at times in the past, so it's not like this is brand new or anything like that. But we grew up in an era where politicians shook hands, spoke kindly to each other and then debated on the things that they disagreed on how they would approach government. I don't think that's yeah what happens now?
Kate:I don't think they were always super nice to each other. No, it's no and they would sling like there would be ads that were definitely like ads that were mud slinging for sure yeah, but it it does seem to be amped up and different than, like I know, even within my family there were different political views, obviously, but different choosing of parties and it just never was an issue. Well, I do remember, Like you always knew that that person was.
Brad:But so what? You just didn't talk about it, kind of thing.
Kate:Yeah, and I guess I can say this now because I won't say what side, but my most of my family was one side and my grandfather was not, and I do remember my family saying like it's just best if we don't talk politics with him. But I remember it coming up at times and, yes, it would sometimes get heated but it was, I don't know, like it was never a deal breaker. I never felt like it was dividing our family. But it is a really good point because my grandfather and my grandmother were registered opposite parties, I mean obviously now there's always been some third parties, but the main two parties, republican and Democrat.
Kate:like I had one grandparent that was one and one was the other, so within their household that was divided Right, and I think that's probably true still today for some people.
Brad:Absolutely, and I know we're a month away from Thanksgiving here and by then we'll have some answers of what's happened in the US political elections, and I know I've already talked to people who are genuinely concerned about going home and just the political discourse that will happen. And what do they do about the differences of opinion that exist within families? And it's to the point where it feels like both sides are saying you either agree with me or you hate me saying you either agree with me or you hate me, right like that.
Brad:It gets this language almost of.
Kate:It's so much who I am that there is not room to politely disagree yeah, that's sad it is very sad that's sad because, while I understand some people feel very like this is critical, they feel like it's changed, like this is your family that you're choosing. If you don't agree with my perspective, then I don't know. That just seems sad and extreme.
Brad:It really does, and I think that may be the place that we need to start is just going. What does it look like to be with somebody who disagrees with you? And be able to listen to them without getting offended.
Kate:Sure, I think that's a life skill it is, and.
Brad:I want to say on both sides of the political party here, this is a challenge.
Kate:Oh, absolutely.
Brad:I think there are people who are feeling like the other side is taking away their freedom, taking away who they want to be like, on either side of the political spectrum, and so it feels like that other family member's attack is a personal one. Even if it's a philosophy, a belief, a you know. I don't believe this should happen or not. It can feel very, very personal.
Brad:So, it's hard to listen to somebody who feels like they're giving a personal attack. But while we were talking about this, before we started recording, I just said how many times in scripture do we see it discussed of Jesus hanging out with people who disagreed with him and honestly, vehemently, sometimes disagreeing with him when you talk about the Pharisees or the Sadducees, but even people from other walks of life and other things that just were not normal? Yeah, right, and Jesus went above and beyond to hang out with people who did life differently.
Kate:Yeah, what do you think that looked like, though? Like we're often told that he hung out with different people and we see glimpses of what that looked like. I realize we're kind of interpreting scripture, but that's part of what we're supposed to do. What do we think that looked like?
Brad:Well, I mean for one. It certainly cost him, because there were assumptions made in the crowds based on hey, he's hanging out with a sinner, he's hanging out with a tax collector, he's hanging out with a woman there are immediate assumptions. Well, that was a big deal, right?
Kate:That's crazy, but anyways, yep, that's not what we're talking about today.
Brad:Keep moving. But there are immediate assumptions in the crowd based on that Like, hey, he's with that person, that must mean he accepts them. And Jesus was actually pretty clear on that that every time that he had one of these encounters with somebody, he loved them, he hung out with them, he did a little bit of life with them, right, Whether it be at the well or Zacchaeus and having dinner with him or whatever.
Brad:Whether it be at the well or Zacchaeus and having dinner with him or whatever. He did a little bit of that life with him or them and then got to the place of saying, hey, I want something different from you. He wasn't leaving the person there, but he didn't start with hey, if you do something different, I'll come over and have dinner with you.
Kate:Right.
Brad:And I think that's something that's changed. I don't know over the last while here that we have trouble discussing being with somebody who disagrees with us and being able to listen.
Kate:Yeah, I think listen, that's definitely where it starts, but I think it's gotten so bad that we have trouble even being in someone's presence.
Brad:In presence.
Kate:yeah, but yes, I do think that's the case and I know we are working really hard in this episode. It's not about what Brad and I believe we have our own beliefs.
Brad:It's not about politics here, right? No, it's about Because Iad and I believe we have.
Kate:it's not about politics here, right, because no, I'm actually thinking of both sides oh 100. But I'm saying like that's why we're not necessarily coming from our perspective. But I know, for me I work really hard when someone shares political things, I am weary, I am leery, because it just feels like it is supercharged right now. It feels threatening at times, it feels not safe, but I work really hard to listen. The challenge that I find is those who listen well don't always get afforded the same opportunity.
Brad:Yeah.
Kate:Like I find, because I have this passion to not let it divide people. Yeah, literally it then means I don't get an opportunity to ever share or it's not safe, because what I find is the people who want to engage are the people who want to convince you and change your mind. And.
Kate:I've had conversations with people who I'm like. Well, I agree, but I still can't get a word in edgewise because you're so vehement. Right, like it's not only people the opposite of me, and I find that to be hard and I find that I think that's you know, you said listen well, but I also think we have to invite. We've got to invite other people to listen.
Brad:Yeah.
Kate:Right, it can't be one sided.
Brad:No, that's exactly right. But I want you, like I want our listeners, to think right now. You know, now we're 10 days out from the election, A lot of people have already voted and some people are you?
Brad:know I want you to think about. You know your candidate, who you're voting for, and if you find out you know in a in another week here that somebody who is going to be at Thanksgiving dinner with you not only voted for the other candidate but went to some rallies and supported that candidate, how would you feel about going to that Thanksgiving dinner? Would it change how you think about it?
Kate:I don't think it would for me.
Brad:I know you're not necessarily asking me, I'm like I mean honestly, I would think I'd probably have my guard up.
Kate:Sure Yep.
Brad:Right, I'd be ready to be bombarded, you know kind of thing, and I would then kind of be worried about what might happen at that place, and I think that scenario is happening all over right now. Sure.
Brad:Right. Whether it be you're different than your parents, whether it be you have a sibling who's different, or it's the crazy uncle. It's the crazy uncle. I think all of us have that people in our lives who have gone a different direction, and it is difficult to sit down and have those conversations. I agree, so what are you suggesting we can do to make that different?
Brad:Well, I think there is a combination of two things the the one that you said is really good in making a space for everyone to be heard, right, that we can create a space when somebody is saying this is what I believe to invite them to go. Would you like to hear the opposite belief? Or how would it make you feel if you heard the opposite belief? Is that safer, right? And I think a lot of people do feel like, and I think a lot of people do feel like, you know, because of the big issues, that the opposite side won't listen to us. So I think, in some ways, we need to go into it, inviting people to, instead of just preach at us, to have a discussion and be able to listen to both sides, and that's obviously the best option. If somebody is willing to listen, then I think that can be really positive. But the opposite also happens, right. But the opposite also happens right, and I think there's a lot of families who have put up some boundaries, rules around. Let's just not have politics at the table.
Brad:Let's not do this to destroy our family, and I think that can be appropriate too, that we try to just put some boundaries up.
Kate:Is that something you grew up with your family saying? I think your family was fairly all one-sided.
Brad:It was pretty one-sided but pretty apolitical. Like they just didn't. Politics wasn't something that we talked about really much at all. Um, you know, so I I can't say that that was something that I saw. I certainly knew that there was some difference in extended family okay, um gotcha but again, that wasn't really something that we talked about a whole lot.
Kate:Yeah, I have no idea about extended family Like as a growing up I didn't. That wasn't something that was discussed, but it was said in my family, like my grandparents and my parents always have a saying of like it's always best not to talk about politics and religion.
Brad:Right.
Kate:So like they would say that at times, I think, when things were being brought up, but yeah.
Brad:And you know, given my history of not talking about it, it is so much easier for me to just be like, okay, can't we just have this dinner and not talk about you know Trump or Harris at all. Can we just leave them out of here and just? Have our family. Right, trump or Harris at all. Can we just leave them out of here and just have our family and I think that can work.
Brad:But I think a lot of people, because these issues are so personal, feel like even excluding it is somehow accepting the other side or falling into that other part of the belief system or something like that, and so I think a lot of people my guess is, when I had you envision that there are many people listening to this who are probably like I'm not sure I would go if that person was attending who went to the opposite party's rally and supported them gotcha that that would mean I, you know, I think we just shouldn't be together and yet I sit here and I think, like I I don't specifically know where my siblings are on this, um, there's many reasons for that, but, like, if they went to something the opposite of what I would necessarily be voting, I would just be really curious, like I'd be like, what was it like?
Kate:like, what are the things that are important to you? I actually think that's really interesting, right? Um, I do think there are things that make have made these last couple elections very supercharged, but what just happened to our natural curiosity? Without a ton of judgment, it doesn't mean you have to change the way you're voting to engage a sibling or someone else in your family, just like, oh wow, what was that like? What did you love? What did you not like? I'm just really curious, I don't know.
Brad:Yeah, I would love to like have that kind of conversation that can be upward and honest and approachable, right, and I think that is the goal. Yeah. All right. So I'm going to flip it a little bit. What if your family member, you know, is that supporter or person who is, you know, really pushing a belief system that says, either candidate, you know if, if you're not voting for them, you're right.
Kate:And we hear that we hear that on both sides.
Brad:So, I'm not even picking a party here, because you can be a Democrat and believe that the Republicans are evil. You can be a Republican and certainly believe that the Democrats are evil right, it's been communicated a lot. So if you're going to dinner with somebody like that, who just feels like the other side is awful and evil, and they're going to not listen to you, they're going to lecture at you, they're going to attack you, then what?
Kate:Are you asking me Because I've got thoughts?
Brad:Go for it.
Kate:I think that's too complex to it's too complex to be like. The other side is evil. Right, we're talking about a massive group of people and it's that kind of always and never effect. Right like it's, they're all evil, like I. Well, first, all we're all broken and sinful, so that's all of us, every single one of us, in every party. So there is that, and I hear that. And yes, the enemy is active in trying to lead people astray, but I just wonder if he's not winning by dividing people so divisively.
Brad:So good? I don't know. Uh, no, I absolutely agree and you know, right now, looking at all of the polls, all the statistics, we are in a dead heat and you know that what that means is 50 of americans disagree vehemently with the other 50 of americans, and that is a problem it cannot be that simple.
Kate:We're, but yeah, it literally cannot be that simple, like we are too complex of people for it to be that simple, but we've chalked it up to that yeah and and I just question, asking yourself, like is the enemy winning with that? Like I, I think, jesus's heart. It's okay for us to disagree. That doesn't mean it should divide us in a way that we are not valuing people anymore I, yeah, I totally agree I mean, that's what jesus was all about.
Kate:Right, you know, he sat with the woman at the well, knowing that she was um, struggling, that living a lifestyle that was not what he wanted for her. But I think, think he also said, like I see you in that you have been in a position where you're a woman and your options were very limited and there's definitely abuse going on here. Like it's complex. It's not just like she is a sin seeker, like there's a piece of us a sin seeker. Yeah, there's a piece of us. Of course Sin feels good, sin takes us places that we don't really want to go, but we end up staying there. So it's complex.
Kate:It sure is it's just not simple, and neither is all of this.
Brad:Yeah, no, I agree. I do think ultimately, there sometimes is a place for boundaries. Oh, for sure. You know, being with family means you're subjecting yourself to being preached at, and you've tried to say hey, can we have an open conversation about this? You've tried listening and asking for listening. You know if you've done many of those things and it just seems stuck. There is a place for a boundary that probably needs to be communicated clearly.
Brad:And you know, for those of you who are potentially in this situation, I'm sure you're going to be watching the news very acutely because we don't know what's going to happen come the end of November, for Thanksgiving. But by then there'll be some things happening and that could be then a very hot time for these kind of discussions to come up. And you may need to communicate with family, you may need to communicate with others of we'll do dinner together, we would love to have you come over or whatever. But here's the boundary and saying we just have chosen that we're going to have you know the time, without discussing politics and see what happens yeah um, you know, that is obviously a difficult thing for some people to do but I think it it can be really good.
Kate:Like I'm thinking about our kids. You know we have well practically three young adults and one teenager. I mean, some are still teenage years.
Brad:We have three voting adults.
Kate:Yes, which is kind of crazy. I was thinking about this morning. We went from last election with no one being able to vote to this election, with our oldest three being able to vote and our youngest would be next election. But would I put this boundary up? I would like, because our family is more important and one of the things we've always tried to say to our kids and we've grown through this saying is you know, accept your siblings wherever they are. It's not your job to change them.
Kate:You can have thoughts on their lives, but each one of them is trying to figure out who they are all kinds of things and I'm not going to get into any of that because it's all very personal to them. But accept them where they are, and that goes for politics too. You guys may grow up and not agree. Agree and it's okay, right, um, and, and there are times, you know, siblings have said things to me of like, oh, I don't really like that, this person's choosing that or whatever. And I've said I hear you, you're allowed to have that thought, but accept your siblings wherever they are. And I think the reality is I hope we don't have to put that in place, but if I needed to. I would, because that's the value of our home. You're not changing anyone. You're not motivating them by coming at them and not accepting them where they are on their journey.
Brad:Yeah.
Kate:And honoring it. You're not.
Brad:Yeah, I agree.
Kate:And I think that's something you need to recognize if you are feeling this huge push to educate and change your family. Yep, I would challenge where's that anxiety coming?
Brad:from yeah, I agree, I agree, but I think there are times that we see that anxiety in the other person right, and that we see them kind of coming at you. With this tension, with this, you have to change your belief or else kind of thing, and I think that's where we do need to put up boundaries. Yeah.
Brad:Right and I'll link it in the podcast or on the show notes. We did a podcast specifically on creating boundaries just a couple of weeks ago and kind of talk through the five steps of creating boundaries. That might be helpful if you're thinking through that, where really it's trying to make them clear and not apologize for them and to be prepared for both your and their emotional backlash when it happens. In short, right we go into a lot more in the other podcast, but it's hard. Creating those boundaries is really difficult.
Kate:Well, and I would say, if you're on the end of where we are, like obviously going up with our parents, aunts and uncles, if you still have grandparents, like setting a boundary, that end is harder because there's obviously already dynamics and established things for us when we're entering the stage getting close to of empty nesters and you know, our children creating and deciding their own personal lives. I think when, like my advice would be, of course, we haven't done this yet. So, as you're seeing things happening that can divide, that's when to put the boundaries up correct, right, not to wait until it's the other way.
Kate:Yeah, and your kids are having to say mom and dad like this is really hard. I don't like it when we get together because da-da-da-da-da. Because I feel railroaded or whatever Right, or whatever, and so I just think it can look very different whether we're talking going upwards or or down.
Brad:That's a really good point, okay, but on that thought and this is where I wanted to get to anywhere there are probably some people listening to this who have this situation in their home or even in their marriage where they disagree with their spouse and that, I think, is a harder issue right. Because now we're talking about. How does this impact your intimacy, your relationship, your communication?
Brad:And we're not just talking about how you vote. I think it's not probably a huge deal on if you voted different. It's probably more that stuff we were talking about before of. I truly believe this other person is bad, evil, wrong and you're supporting that.
Kate:Or the big. What do they call them? The big issues?
Brad:the hot topics.
Kate:I think it can be that too, not even because I'm voting for that not the party Right. That's important to me.
Brad:So, whether it be abortion or you, know, yeah, things like that. Anything like that. That's like you're thinking of this and now the person is is disagreeing with you. You know, immigration, abortion, economics, lgbtq, like whatever that view is yeah, then it feels like they're slamming that belief that you may have.
Kate:I think, okay, you know my favorite thing to go to if you and your spouse have different thoughts on hot button issues. There's story there. Of course, my favorite thing to go to if you and your spouse have different thoughts on hot button issues. There's story there.
Kate:Of course, right, there are reasons, and I think, more than the way you feel you need to vote because of them, it's important for your intimacy to understand where they come from, why they're important, and so I think figuring that out is important, because then you can at least say I know where this comes from, for my spouse.
Kate:I still feel differently about it, but I can honor that they feel differently. Right and no offense. But we got married because we found our spouse attractive and enjoyed them. We didn't marry ourselves. None of us did, and thank goodness right.
Kate:Let's just contemplate that for a second. And so the beauty of why we got married is a part of this, and sometimes it's hard because we do have different thoughts. I'm sure you've had different thoughts on parenting your kids or different thoughts on what to do with your finances, like this isn't the first thing you've ever had different thoughts on, and it should not divide you, right? And of course, some of those things divide people as well. The things I just named can be things that get a couple very stuck, but this should get us no more stuck than anything else, and if it's truly getting you stuck, honestly I would say reach out to a coach you know, aldridge Ministries, we do that here so that you can understand the story behind it and be able to enter in with empathy, even if you disagree.
Brad:That's, and I think that's really wise, because you are exactly correct. There are reasons behind somebody is passionate about gun control or freedom to bear arms, that they're passionate about abolishing abortion or having abortion right. That they have these beliefs there and, yes, of course, some of them go back to our, your faith belief and that's perfectly okay, yeah and should like I. I truly believe our faith should color our politics choices.
Brad:You know, maybe that's the best way to put it. I believe it should have an impact there. And yet I think we also have to look at who Jesus is, not just what.
Kate:The hot button issue is that, whatever's going on right and look at how he engaged the hot button issues of his time, because there were lots. It's there were, and they're not all that different from today, um, and he engaged them, yes, with truth, but also with grace, kindness, compassion, right complex. Grace, kindness, compassion, right Complex. And so is this. It's just not simple.
Brad:But I love that. I love to give kind of the hope piece there that if you're finding you're truly in a conflict space with somebody who you really want to build intimacy, going into that deeper understanding for both of you is probably a really good effort to try to get to. You know let's get behind why this is actually here.
Kate:Yeah, let's not let it divide us, let's let it actually grow us.
Brad:Yeah, I love that. I love that. That's really good. So here is hoping for all of you that you're able to navigate this election season well with your family, regardless of who wins, and that we can respect the differences that we have and learn how to come together in the places that we're similar. Yeah, for sure. Because there's probably a lot more that joins us than divides us.
Kate:Yeah, and just you know, for the funny, as I was looking up, as we were talking real quick, you know, because Mickey Mouse gets a certain amount of votes every year. So, there's always that option. Guys Just kidding, and actually Jesus gets a ton of votes. Oh, my gosh so does God. So you know? And Mickey Mouse technically can't be voted for because he's not actually a real. Did you know? He's not actually a real person?
Brad:He's not. We're breaking that out, guys. I'm not sure Jesus can win the election, so that's probably a problem, I mean you know, there's so many things.
Kate:We could go into all of this, but there's always a write-in, so you could always write in somebody.
Brad:No, I think that's actually really valid. One of our kids, who will remain nameless, was thinking about not—.
Kate:I mean, they have names, we're just not sharing them.
Brad:Yeah, was thinking about not voting and I gave a pretty passionate thing of—you've heard this before.
Kate:It is your right and privilege.
Brad:I have said, it's your right and privilege to vote. You do not have to vote for the major candidates, and not voting only communicates to the major candidates that you don't care when.
Kate:Voting for somebody else communicates at least that you're dissatisfied with what's well what the current options are, and of course, each side will say democrat and republicans, you're just giving your vote to the other side doesn't matter but here's my thing.
Kate:That may be the way it works statistically, but that's not right. If you don't feel like you can vote for either candidate, I don't. I don't think you need to get stuck there. I think you need to exercise your right to vote. And you know you had a conversation we'll say it this way that that child was male. I had a conversation with another child we have two of each, so you can pretend to figure it out if you want but with one of our daughters who also was like I'm not, I'm not going to vote. And I said you know, sweetheart, it hasn't been that long that women could not vote. Like we sometimes forget the history of and even in the United States, some atrocious things we've done of keeping different groups of people from being able to vote and have a say. And I just said you know there are people in the past who fought for you specifically to vote, and we have a black son too, so there are people who fought specifically for that kiddo to vote.
Kate:Like there is a piece of register to vote and stand up for the right that you get to have this honor because other people some people lost their lives were beaten for this Like it's no joke.
Brad:Yes.
Kate:And it is an honor.
Brad:And since we are on that topic, I will say it is 50 years, only 50 years today that women got the right to have credit on their own name.
Kate:Oh, so like buying a house, and credit cards that they did not have to have their husband sign with them 50 years, guys, only 50 years, no offense. But I'm, I said, late 40s. We'll just be honest. I'm 47. Yep, that was only three years before I was born.
Brad:Yeah right, that's insane. So women owning businesses, women owning their own home, did not happen in this country more than 50 years ago, or was very rare because it was hard for them to get credit.
Kate:What did they do with single women?
Brad:They had to get their fathers or brothers to sign, or their uncle or someone.
Kate:They had to have a cosigner. Can you even like and I think sometimes I'm starting to sound like an old person, but I think our younger generation has no idea. They don't realize how recent some of this stuff was, and even myself I've read that statistic before, but I don't think I correlated it to my own life.
Brad:And there is a reality that part of the reason it happened only 50 years ago was because prior to 50 years ago we weren't using credit in the same way that we use it now. So, there is some elements to that, but I think it's just so important to remember that that right wasn't there. And it's only through voting for change that happens over time, that that happened.
Kate:Yeah, yeah. Anyways, guys, there's our little history buff.
Brad:There's the history buff part of me.
Kate:Yeah, we have it. It's very strong. The history buff is strong in this family. Yes, it is so well.
Brad:I hope that was helpful. I know there are so many of you who are wrestling with this really divisive issue of what to do with family members, who are just coming from the different political spectrum and we just so believe in the power of unity and intimacy and this process of becoming one as a couple specifically. Obviously, we're mostly talking about marriage when we say still becoming one, but there is a place of you know what does it mean to walk in intimacy with our community, with our family? That is also important, and so we hope that this encourages you, gives you maybe some ideas and to continue growing in your journey of becoming one. Until next time, I'm Brad Aldrich.
Kate:I'm Kate Aldrich. Be kind and take care of each other.
Brad:Be kind and take care of each other, and don't forget to like this episode wherever you get your podcasts, and be sure to follow us to continue your journey on still becoming one.