Still Becoming One
Still Becoming One
The Higher Desire Wife: Navigating Sexual Intimacy When You Want More
Brad and Kate welcome J Parker, author of "The Higher Desire Wife," to discuss the often overlooked reality of wives who desire more sexual intimacy than their husbands and how couples can navigate this sensitive dynamic with understanding and compassion.
• Sexual desire fluctuates throughout marriage, with partners' drives shifting multiple times over the years
• Numerous factors affect male sexual desire, including stress, sleep, health issues, testosterone levels, relationship issues, and more
• When wives want more sex than husbands, it doesn't automatically mean he isn't attracted to her or is getting satisfaction elsewhere
• Approaching desire differences as an "us issue" rather than blaming one spouse creates safety for honest conversations
• Pornography and other sexual sin rewire the brain to view sex as consumption rather than intimate participation
• Creating intentional attraction by focusing on your spouse helps maintain desire in long-term relationships
• "Closing the gap" requires positive vision-casting rather than complaints about what isn't happening
• Sexual intimacy requires vulnerability and effort but brings a deeper connection than solo sexual experiences
Link to the book: The Higher Desire Wife
J's podcast: Sex Chat For Christian Wives
J's blog: Hot Holy Humorous
Welcome to the Still Becoming One podcast. We are Brad and Kate.
Kate Aldrich:In our more than 20 years of marriage, we've survived both dark times and experienced restoration.
Brad Aldrich:Now as a licensed marriage counselor and relationship coaches. We help couples to regain hope and joy.
Kate Aldrich:We invite you to journey with us, as we are still becoming one.
Brad Aldrich:Let's start the conversation. Hello everyone, Welcome back to Still Becoming One.
Kate Aldrich:Yeah.
Brad Aldrich:We are excited to have you all here today. We're really excited because we have one of our friends of the show on to share a little bit about some new things coming out.
Kate Aldrich:Yeah, we are joined today by a friend of ours and fellow marriage ministry worker. I don't know what. We call ourselves Champion, champion.
Kate Aldrich:There we go there you go Jay, parker or Julie, whichever you prefer to go by and super excited for her, as she is just recently launched her sixth book not sixth in marriage, but six in general, which is amazing and her book is titled the Higher Desire Wife, which is definitely an area that I feel like has needed some resources for sure, and I'm sure all the higher desire wives out there would agree. So we are super excited to have Jay with us today. So, yeah, welcome and congratulations on your book release, thanks so much.
J Parker:I really appreciate you having me, and I know that y'all have been champions for marriage for a long time. Remember when I first kind of got to know y'all and you're just produced so much great content through the years.
Kate Aldrich:Thanks. We appreciate that, you as well. So we're excited to talk about this and get the conversation started and hopefully in some marriages out there we'll get the conversation started as well.
Brad Aldrich:Yeah. So, jay, tell us a little bit about what motivated you to want to write this.
J Parker:Yeah, you've probably gotten these communications through the years. But what happens sometimes when you're talking about sex? I started the blog hoping to encourage wives to have sex more, so that was the original point of my ministry and then I would get feedback from wives who were saying, hey, it's opposite. In my marriage, I'm the one who's wanting sex more than my husband. And what also happened for me is I experienced all of it too.
J Parker:My husband and I were matched at one point in our sexual desire and then, after we had kids, my sex drive took a nosedive and then I kind of came back up from that. And as I came back up from that, we were matched briefly and then my desire passed his, and so I found myself totally understanding that feeling of, hey, I'm wanting more sexual intimacy and I'm not getting it and what's going on? And just feeling like something was wrong with me, and then for a long time thinking something must be wrong with me and then also starting to say what's wrong with him, and I just I wanted answers. And so I went out and looked for answers and I've talked to a lot of higher desire wives through the years and spent several years putting it all in a book.
Kate Aldrich:Wow, that's awesome, I think you know and and Jay's blog is hot, holy humorous we forgot to mention that in the beginning and I think what you just said there is so important and what I think I would love for every premarital couple to know it shifts and changes potentially many times throughout your relationship. Right, absolutely. I think we're kind of sold this lie, especially by the church, that it'll just all be matched the whole time and you'll be ripping each other's clothes off all the time and there's nothing to navigate. So like I love that even within you writing this book, there is the reality of you know, you sharing in your relationship and that's been true in ours as well it does shift and change. It doesn't always stay the same people, so like even that truth right there, I think, is huge for people.
J Parker:Yeah, I've even said that a lot of couples who don't think they need this information may need this information Because he might be higher now and she might be lower, or they might be matched, and you know, we have these seasons in life and things might flip and you might want to know what are the reasons or what can we do about it. I know y'all talk about that too how to close that desire gap. Sure, and it doesn't mean that you're going to be exactly the same, but you can often close the gap a bit. That's good.
Brad Aldrich:I think that closing the gap part is something that you talk a lot about in the book, is really trying to bring a level of understanding of what's going on for the couple, and I'm curious, honestly you spend a lot of time talking about the different things that could be impacting the desire level of both people in the relationship. And I'm curious, as you were doing research, is there anything that surprised you, that was like, oh, that might be something?
J Parker:Oh yeah, when I started doing research there had several things that I knew for sure were part of this puzzle. But as I started looking at all the reasons that a husband might have less sex drive, he anticipated or they anticipated the reasons just kind of kept piling up. There were more and more and more. So part of me feels a little bad that there's a big section of the book that kind of talks about that, although each chapter is not just describing the thing, it's also talking about how to manage it. But some of them surprised me A lot of the physical health stuff, things about weight, diet, poor sleep and the reason that those things all have an effect is that they especially they affect male testosterone, especially if they affect male testosterone.
J Parker:Sure, and and I knew stress was a big one but just reading more and more about how stress can really do a number on your sexual desire, I saw people actually, when they're stressed they want to have more sex because they find it relieving, but there's a lot of people who don't, because the cortisol, the stress hormone, blocks a lot of your ability to get aroused, to feel that desire.
Kate Aldrich:That makes sense for sure.
Brad Aldrich:No, it makes a ton of sense and I think it's so important for people to recognize there may be lots of different things going on to recognize there may be lots of different things going on, and I think there is this assumption out there that if a wife desires sex more than her husband does, that one of two things is happening Either he's getting it somewhere else or he doesn't like her. I think those are kind of the assumptions that's out there.
J Parker:Yes, a lot of wives who have struggled with this will say I don't feel like he wants me. I mean, we all want to be wanted in some way and so they think, well, I must not be attractive to him. And that's almost never the case. I'm not saying never, there are moments but for the most part that's just not it. He chose her, he married her, he's attracted to her. There's other stuff going on, yeah, yeah.
Kate Aldrich:And it's just interesting just interesting, as you said, like you found that, that as you were researching, that there was so much more that you know more than you anticipated and how much things are affecting it, and yet often it's chalked up to like two things very basic, right and um, so yeah, so that that the piece of your book that is educating people, I think is huge, to be able to think about these different things and be able to ask good questions of themselves, like what could actually be impacting this.
Kate Aldrich:So I think that's really really good, because the information out there is very small and narrow and often not true.
J Parker:And with all these reasons, I'm hoping it. I try to say this in the book. I'm hoping it doesn't come across as we're just trying to figure out what is wrong with him. That's not the point Right there. There may be nothing wrong. It may just be, though, that he isn't getting enough sleep, and maybe that's something that you need to tackle. I mean, these are things that can impact it. So kind of seeing how complex this is and asking the questions of where in this list do we think some things are happening and how can we tackle that issue can make a big difference.
Kate Aldrich:Yeah, yeah, exactly, and I think it lends itself to how complex we are as people and I think the Lord made us that way in an incredible way.
Kate Aldrich:But it also impacts things that are good and positive. And I know, even for us, like I think back and there was a time in our marriage it wasn't that long ago and there were things outside of our control that were really stressful and we were trying to figure out how to continue navigating sexual intimacy with all of those things in our home too, that were really difficult. And I remember you, brad, saying to me one time, like we need to just have our space, like this was deeply impacting it, but it was something you wouldn't necessarily think about. We need to just have our space, like this was deeply impacting it, but it was something you wouldn't necessarily think about. We need to just have our space, like that we're not going to process that, that thing that's going on in our lives, that thing that's super stressful in our bedroom in our bedroom right, so we're gonna make that like that's off limits in here.
Kate Aldrich:That sounds harsh, but that was something that I know you specifically needed.
Brad Aldrich:It wasn't necessarily, I was having trouble making the transition between talking about this stressful thing and then like oh, right, okay, now it's that time, right okay, how do we do like it just didn't happen?
Kate Aldrich:right right like and and so just even like that, right, it's something you have to be able to sort of like enter into what is happening. And you know you talk about stress in the book and so that definitely entered that. But just thinking about how that was entering the space that we share sexual intimacy in cause, we have teenagers, guys, so there's really no other place to share it at this point in life. But just thinking about that, I think you bringing up these things there's going to start huge like conversations.
J Parker:But that's what I hope for couples that this will raise conversation so I love that you point that out to you, brad, that it was difficult for you to transition, because I think the other time that we simplify things is we simplify guys sexuality too much. We have this attitude that guys can just flip the switch and that if they see their wife naked or just looking nice that day, that it's just this easy thing for them to go for it, and I think that actually doesn't honor men for their complexity. Sure, and we need to look at all the things that could impact their desire.
Kate Aldrich:Absolutely.
Brad Aldrich:Yeah, that's good I think that's probably one of the things that I liked about your book the most is a compassionate understanding of there's a lot of things that affect his desire that aren't necessarily bad, right? How do you advise because I'm going to guess that most of the first people who pick up this book will be the wife right, it's called Higher Desire Wives, so I think most of the first time it's going to be a wife who picks this up how do you encourage them to address this long list of potential things that may be happening with love and compassion?
J Parker:Yeah, great question. And I think that you need to start by feeling that to some extent, feeling the gentleness, the love, the compassion. And, you know, don't don't go to your husband and say, hey, I figured out what's wrong with you. See, everything will be great. That's not what we're talking about here. You're trying to close the gap, you're not trying to be right about everything, and so you need to look at where you're each coming from, and you can ask questions such as I've been reading about some things that can affect testosterone and I'm wondering if some of these might be going on in your life. Would you be willing to go get tested? Or let me just share some of this with you what do you think about that? And ask for feedback and really listen and try to hear their story, and then you can kind of, and as you show that you're on their side. People are always more willing to share things when they feel safe and when they feel like the person over there is not looking for the gotchas but looking to help.
Kate Aldrich:Yeah.
J Parker:And I think it's always important for the higher desire spouse, whichever one that is, to stress that this is not about getting the sex. I mean it is in the sense that of course you want to have sex. But what does sex mean to you? It means something deeper. It means connection, it means expression of love. It means you know whatever it means to you to be able to express that what you're missing is the person. Yeah, the intimacy with the person. Yeah, the intimacy with the person.
Kate Aldrich:Yeah, that's really good because I I know on both sides it can feel very much like, oh, that's just all you want, kind of thing. Right that, that attitude of like, oh, you just want sex. And I think we do want to be kind and compassionate to our spouse and understand and the thing that I've always tried to say to people in the beginning we weren't good at this, but, like any challenges you experience in your sexual intimacy, it's a, it's an us challenge, not just a him or her right, regardless if it is him or her, it's us. And so how do we navigate this? Just like anything else that, for whatever reason, we're not on the same page about, and so I think when we can come to it with that kind of gentleness and kindness, hopefully we can have conversations that don't feel threatening and feel like the goal is actually the two of you growing together in whatever, and in this case sexual intimacy. So I think that's really good, because I think otherwise we just continue to create walls and hurt.
Brad Aldrich:Yeah.
J Parker:Yeah, you sometimes have to rehearse some of these things, I think in your head too, and that has helped me when we were first working on this issue, just reminding myself he is attracted to me and he does love me, and I can see he loves me in all these other ways. So this sex piece is not everything we want it to be, but it's not the whole of our marriage, and I can see all these other places where things are going well, so we can tackle this one too.
Brad Aldrich:Yeah, I think that's really important. I'm curious, as you've been talking to higher drive wives and as a couple, what their response is usually from their husband when they're brought with that kind of approach.
J Parker:Yeah, it's interesting. I've heard all the range of stories. There are some people who, unfortunately, have kind of tried all the things that you would think would work and they're still struggling. And I think it's because the person is just, they just have a barrier and oftentimes it's something emotional from their past and they're just really struggling to get past the barrier, to get there.
J Parker:But more often I hear more openness than you might think, that men are willing to hear these things, especially if they don't feel attacked a lot of times. Well, one way in which I think the situation is somewhat different than when it's a higher desire husband and a lower desire wife, is it in this case when the husband is curious Well, you're not enough for me, or you're not having sex with your wife enough. A lot of guys feel that their masculinity is attacked, and so you would think that they would say, well, that I'm going to step up and do all this masculinity. You would think that they would say, well, that I'm going to step up and do all this masculinity. But if you are an avoider too, you don't. You don't want to be reminded. You don't want to be reminded of this. So it's difficult for you to have those conversations and you don't want to hear the complaint, and so it really does need to come from a good place. But once you do that, and especially if you can reaffirm that, you know, I say all the time to Lord's, our husbands, you're all man, you're all man, okay, but yeah, it's just this issue. Yeah, it's not about your masculinity and so, but a lot of men are open to, hey, you know, what could we do to make this better?
Brad Aldrich:And I hear a lot of those same things from guys who are experiencing some erectile dysfunction. We would think, because it's on literally every sporting event whatever, there's commercials now for the treatments. But you'd think that that might change some of this mindset. But there still is this manhood, masculinity I'm good enough mentality that if guys struggle in that area then they don't know what to do with that. It's rocking to the core and then you're exactly right, I think a lot of times then the idea is avoidance, or at least, if it's not totally avoidant, it's at least spread it out significantly. So the likelihood of that happening goes quite a bit down and they don't talk about it.
J Parker:Right down and right. They don't talk about it right, or only only engaging when all the circumstances are right, you know. So I think I can really make it happen this time.
Brad Aldrich:So and they just good, don't know how to communicate that to their spouse. In fact, one of the things when I'm dealing with guys now in my age bracket 40s and 50s and above is I hear this kind of stuff all the time and my first thing that I talk to them about is communicating to their wife what's going on, and I think almost all of them have not communicated the fact that they have had sometimes a fear of losing their erection and they don't know how to talk about it.
Kate Aldrich:So that becomes a major issue. Yeah, yeah, I get that.
J Parker:You know I bet y'all see this all the time we let problems in our marriage go too long, oftentimes just because we're unwilling to bring up the topic and have a good conversation about it.
Kate Aldrich:We work with a lot of people where it's like why is that? Why is it really hard for you to bring it up? And one of the things that I tell people and Brad and I've always told this to our teenagers too. You know, maybe I don't and hear me in this, I don't suggest this for everything but if it's really hard to get it past your lips, send a text and say I would really like to talk to you about this.
Kate Aldrich:Okay, the conversation doesn't happen via text, but a lot of times that is a tool we can use when it's really hard to get it out here, because that it's just really hard to do. Um, and and still, there has to be kindness and gentleness in that text and I'm for us, not a hey, this is happening and you need to fix it, but like even saying I'm having trouble bringing this up, but I know we need to talk about it and right, and sometimes that can get you into that space where you can enter both, coming with that gentle attitude. So I would say, like, think outside the box, don't continue to have the conversation via text or email or anything like that, but sometimes starting it that way is super helpful for people.
Brad Aldrich:Yeah, absolutely.
J Parker:That's a great point. We've actually done that emailed each other sometimes when there's a tense thing happening, and gives us a little more chance to explain ourselves and what our true motives and heart is about something, before we then come back together and talk.
Brad Aldrich:So, jay, your book talks a lot about the physical health and emotional health and relationship health and and all of these other factors, but you do also spend a little bit of time talking about this thing that is, I think, a lot of times at the root is a fear of there may be somebody else, there may be sexual sin, there might be something else going on. Talk to us a little bit about when that is part of the formula here.
J Parker:Yeah, one of the things you did mention earlier the idea that he's getting it elsewhere and I would say, yes, there could be adultery, but there is often sexual acting out is is more likely, and what I mean by that is there is not necessarily another person that they're engaging with, but they're engaging with pornography or they're, or it could be, um, you know, chat rooms or going to strip club or whatever those kinds of things are, and so their sexual energy is getting burnt out in those places and it's also retraining their view of sexuality.
J Parker:To be a, you basically become a consumer of sex rather than a participle participant with another person, and so it can become more difficult sometimes for these men to engage with their wives and find that to be a really good experience. Also, they're not sure what she really likes, because the stuff that's been shown to them is not what she really likes and it doesn't really get her there, and he thinks it should, or maybe he's scared to try any of that, and so it's very bland. I mean, there's just numerous things going on there.
Brad Aldrich:But yeah, pornography is actually one of the biggest reasons why I think we're seeing younger men, particularly, who are struggling with less desire. Yeah, absolutely, we've talked about this on this show before. But you know, the reality is pornography. All of those things that you just talked about are selfish. They're not sexual intimacy, they're just sexual experiences, right, and having sexual intimacy with somebody else, that is vulnerable, that is opening yourself up and in a way of giving and receiving, which is totally different and it's more wonderful. But it's also more work, right? And I think a lot of times when you've had a huge diet of pornography, then it's like, well, why do I need that right? Like, why do I need that Right? Like, why do I even look towards that?
Kate Aldrich:Well, and there's vulnerability to intimacy where, like I would think there needs to be less vulnerability for your own personal self in in using those sexual experiences.
J Parker:So yeah, yeah, we prime ourselves toward selfish sexual activity in those things, as opposed to the intimacy you're talking about, and I do think it's harder also, and I said, let's face it, you know, for the most part, when a couple is having sex, he is probably doing a little bit more than she is as far as the actual things that need to happen. So I think sometimes, though, if you've gone through the pornography and everything, it feels like work to get to get there and I should.
J Parker:I mean it is effort, there should be effort involved in sex but it shouldn't feel like oh wow, this is just a lot of work. I gotta schlep myself here and roll up my sleeves and make it happen, and you know but then again too, like anything really worth, something in life.
Kate Aldrich:It is I wouldn't say work. It takes, as you said.
Brad Aldrich:It takes intentionality and effort and communication and connection and all of those things, which that's the challenge. When there isn't any of that and there is, you know, it gets hard.
J Parker:And I'm sure that you've dealt with this with. There's kind of a time period between when you leave off from that and when you start having intimacy with your wife. That's actually the kind that you think, wow, this is so much better. There's kind of a gap in the in that timing, and so you have to be willing to trust that. You've got to kick that out the door, You've got to deal with it together and then figure out how to retrain both of you to have the kind of really great physical intimacy your marriage deserves.
J Parker:That's really good For sure.
Brad Aldrich:Yeah. So, Jay, you talk a lot about some of these different factors that are going on, but you also spend some time talking about wives. Why is your drive higher?
J Parker:How do you?
Brad Aldrich:answer that question.
J Parker:Well, it depends. I mean, sometimes it's just a relative thing, because maybe you're the higher desire wife in this marriage, but had you married a different man, you would be the lower desire spouse, and so sometimes it's just a relative thing and that's just kind of how it is. There are some wives that are hypersexual and so they need to think about whether their expectations or desires are reasonable. Are they looking to sex for things that sex is not intended to give you? You know whether it's the validation the you know if you have body image issues. Some women find that having less of sex will make them feel better about their bodies and things like that.
J Parker:So you might need to ask yourself about whether your desire is at the healthy level. But yeah, but there's just some, some wives too, some wives too, or some women who just have a higher desire, and we just have a variation among people, and that's okay.
Brad Aldrich:So I'm going to ask the question. Like we talked about pornography for men as being a potential cause of their lower desire for their wife, Do you see the rise of romance novels and all of those things? Or pornography, or pornography for women being a connection to their higher desire.
J Parker:Yes, I do think that there are wives out there who get themselves worked up aroused with pornography, erotica, romance novels, bridgerton, name your thing, whatever it is and then they basically want to kind of go take it out on their husband, and that's a problem because, again, you're missing out on the intimacy and you're approaching sex as a selfish activity, something that's about stating what you stirred up inside you instead of a connecting moment with your husband, and your sexual energy needs to go to your spouse.
Kate Aldrich:I would add, with that, and that's a journey to figure out if that desire is coming.
Kate Aldrich:Without any of that, it is good, right, there is nothing wrong, because I think the reason, like images in our heads you know, brad always says, if we go back I don't know long time ago, when there weren't all these great, great, crazy resources out there, like it was to remember your spouse and to be like, oh, I can't wait to see them again, like you know, all of those things. And so I think we always have to talk about the flip side, because the Lord did create it as a good thing, and you remembering your spouse, or thinking about them, or thinking about how they look, and that creating desire, that's a good thing. Look, and that creating desire, that's a good thing. Yeah, um, it's when we've allowed it to be other sources of things that are not our spouse, that are not ours to have, that it creates. That I guess I would say, like your spouse knows nothing about that, which is not good, right, that's like something that they don't know is going on inside of your head.
J Parker:Totally true. I also think we don't need to fear that you might see someone and think, hey, that's attractive person. Or whether it's you're watching TV, you're watching a movie, we notice beauty around us, but it's you know, you're watching TV or watching a movie, it's you know? Yeah, we notice beauty around us but it's what you're fostering, what you're, you're dwelling on.
J Parker:I mean it's it's the, the idea that the grass is greener where you water it. And so if I see a good looking celebrity or whatever and I think, wow, that's a really nice, good, nice looking man, I almost immediately now think, yeah, but not as great as my husband, you know, cause I've kind of fostered that in my head, to think, yeah, but I wouldn't want to go out with that guy. I've got my husband. Why would I want anyone but him?
Kate Aldrich:I think too for me, I've, I've tried to, and I don't know Brad you can speak to this is the Lone Ranger guy in this conversation but like I've tried to foster, like Brad is the definition to me of attractive, and, and not just physically but like all of his attributes. And, interestingly enough, I find then, with that kind of mentality, the people who catch my eye actually look like my husband.
J Parker:The same thing happens to me too. I'm like I have such a type, and my type, apparently, is my husband.
Brad Aldrich:But I think that's how it should be.
Kate Aldrich:But I think that's intentional and some some I think people in general not judging, but like could benefit from trying to have that sort of posture and mindset, because I not only because he's way taller than me and I'm always looking for him in a crowd, but now that he shaves his head I'm like, oh, that guy's attractive. And then I'm like, actually, I think it's just because he shaves his head right, Like it's not, and so I think that is a really good thing, because then we're always going to come back Well, I shouldn't say always, but then I find myself always going back to. Well, that person reminds me of Brad and that's why he caught my eye. So I think, yeah, I think both of those having that mental space where we say, okay, how am I going to be intentional about this, is super helpful.
Brad Aldrich:I don't know from a guy's perspective. No, I think we have to be very intentional about it and that does help with desire. I think one of the challenges I think in couples' desire, when it's longer-term couples, is sexual intimacy can become rote just like anything else. Right, this is what we do and you know, being able to bring something new and novel can be really amazing to your relationship and I think it goes with that attractiveness, it goes with that. So, like you know, we've said before, when's the last time that you got dressed up and went out to dinner, up and went out to dinner? We tend not to do those things in long-term marriages as much, unless there's something else driving it right. But why?
J Parker:Yeah, and that's one of the other things about closing this gap is I love how you have these positive things you're throwing out, because sometimes what we end up saying is, well, I'm not happy with how things are now, and it starts feeling like it's always a complaint. I'm not happy with how things are now, and it starts feeling like it's always a complaint, Whereas one of the best ways to talk to your spouse about desire is to say well, to cast a vision and kind of say hey, I would really like for us to make love more and I'd like us to spice it up a little bit. Can we talk about what's in the way and see what we can do to be connected more often?
Brad Aldrich:I love that.
J Parker:Yeah.
Brad Aldrich:One of the questions I've learned to ask couples when we start talking about this area a little bit is tell me a little bit of what like vacation sex is like. Because what, what you do in that is you're cutting through all of the. The kids might hear the like, do we have time for this? The stress that you're cutting all of that out for this little captured time. And I find a lot of couples go, oh my gosh, if we could just have vacation sex all the time, I'd be thrilled.
Brad Aldrich:And then it's like, okay, now it's not mechanical, it's all of those other relationship things that we need to figure out many times, many times not always, I don't want to say that always across the board. So, jay, this is such a really great resource and I know we're going to have links to it in the show notes. I know there's going to be a lot of people who benefit from the Higher Desire Wife and you know we have already referred many people to your podcast, sex Chat for Christian Wives, and I know there's a lot of people who grow from that and benefit from that.
J Parker:Thank you so much. I appreciate that I've referred people to y'all too, over and over. I especially know you have some resources, brad, for that unwanted sexual behavior, and hopefully you'll share that too, for sure.
Brad Aldrich:Yeah, it's so good, it's so needed, and we're so thankful that you wrote it absolutely thanks, yeah absolutely well, jay, it was so wonderful to have you back on the show again and we're really really excited for the book and and know it's going to be really beneficial and bring good things to a lot of people. Yeah, for for sure. Thanks, thank you so much. Well, we're so glad. I hope you guys got something out of that. We're glad to have Jay on. You guys can go and check out. She's recorded with us before. We've had her on a couple of times so you can certainly go on. If you look on aldrichministriescom slash podcast, if you look on aldrichministriescom slash podcast, you will be able to find a whole list of categories of things that we've talked about, including our guests on before, so you can search there and find all of Jay's awesome episodes. But until next time, I'm Brad Aldrich.
Kate Aldrich:And I'm Kate Aldrich. Be kind and take care of each other.
Brad Aldrich:Still Becoming One is a production of Aldrich Ministries. For more information about Brad and Kate's coaching ministry courses and speaking opportunities, you can find us at aldrichministriescom For podcast show notes and links to resources in all of our social media. Be sure to visit us at stillbecomingonecom and don't forget to like this episode wherever you get your podcasts. And be sure to follow us to continue your journey on Still Becoming One.