Still Becoming One
Still Becoming One
When He Wants More: Finding Sexual Desire Middle Ground
We explore the dynamic when husbands experience higher sexual desire than their wives, examining how both partners often feel broken or inadequate when confronting these differences.
• Sexual desire disparity affects approximately 80% of marriages with the husband having a higher desire
• Both partners suffer—husbands feeling rejected and wives feeling inadequate or broken
• Harmful messaging from purity culture and society creates unrealistic expectations about marital sex
• Emotional connection often precedes sexual desire for many women, not just a "checklist" to complete
• Trauma history significantly impacts how people experience and express desire
• Desire levels naturally fluctuate throughout marriage due to life stages, stress, and other factors
• Meeting in the middle requires both partners to move toward each other with empathy
• Sexual intimacy serves multiple purposes beyond physical release—connection, care, comfort
We'd love to hear your thoughts about navigating desire differences and what meeting in the middle looks like in your relationship.
Welcome to the Still Becoming One podcast. We are Brad and Kate.
Speaker 2:In our more than 20 years of marriage, we've survived both dark times and experienced restoration.
Speaker 1:Now as a licensed marriage counselor and relationship coaches. We help couples to regain hope and joy.
Speaker 2:We invite you to journey with us, as we are still becoming one.
Speaker 1:Let's start the conversation. Hello everyone, Welcome back to Still Becoming One.
Speaker 2:Yeah, welcome back.
Speaker 1:Oh, it is spring and getting warmer here.
Speaker 2:The neighbor's mowing, and that means I have to mow no, it doesn't yes, it does. I can't believe he broke the I don't know like the first one to mow. Then everybody's got to mow, oh that's just not fair. I know, but it's probably time anyways, just been pushing that to the side. I like mowing, by the way, but always the first mow feels a little like ugh we're back to that kind of thing.
Speaker 2:We do have a nice load of wood in our yard that will take up a ton of the grass space, so I don't need to mow that.
Speaker 1:Yep, I'm working on getting that all chopped up for you.
Speaker 2:Yep, we're just talking randomly to each other. We have a wood stove and I love it and so keeping it stocked is super important, but now it's just pretty much brad and I that do it. We don't have any amazing young men to help us. We do, but they're often their college thing and their next thing, so yeah um, our daughters. One is super busy with musical coming up, the other one is less inclined to help. So we're just chopping our own wood, stacking our own wood, good stuff.
Speaker 1:It's definitely the. When you get a wood stove, it's the people say it's the heat that makes you sweat multiple times.
Speaker 2:Oh, I haven't heard that, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's very true, because you sweat when you're cutting it, you sweat when you're splitting it, you sweat when you're stacking it and you sweat when you're bringing it in.
Speaker 2:I don't sweat hardly at any of those times, I mean, I guess when it's summer and we're doing it. But that's why we're doing it in the spring, so it's not so hot, but okay, yeah, you're working harder than I am.
Speaker 1:I've been sweating at it, but it's good. It's good exercise too, so yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:And then we get a nice, nice, cozy house in the winter, which I love.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep.
Speaker 1:So I hope you all enjoyed the conversation last week with Jay from Hot Holy Humorous and her conversation around higher desire wives. That's really a lot of her ministry has been speaking to. What her research is showing is maybe 15 or 20 percent somewhere in there I mean different things, give different statistics but.
Speaker 2:I think when she went through all of it she found all the statistics together kind of fall in that area and I think what's interesting.
Speaker 1:um, one of the things I thought was really interesting was her just talking about how that even shifted in her relationship through the course of time, and I think that is something that doesn't get talked about enough, that you may find yourself at the one point now and you may be somewhere completely different in five years.
Speaker 2:True, I think, also remembering like. Remembering like I don't, most marriages are going to have differences somewhere along the way and fluctuations right. So like maybe it hasn't happened and that's okay, and maybe it will never happen, but I think those that would be an interesting study right there.
Speaker 1:I think those people are in the minority, um, and it may shift back and forth several different times, so it, yeah, it isn't abnormal for that to happen, so yeah, I think that's I think that's a really important thing is that there are shifts that happen based on age and other factors, but also just relationship factors, life stage, yeah lots of different stress.
Speaker 2:Life like lots of different things. Yeah, I think life stage is a big one. When your kids are tiny, there are different challenges to finding time for sexual intimacy than when your kids are older. That still challenges, but they're very different. So like even just if you have, if you have kids in your house, how that impacts it, how's it, how's it change it, kind of thing.
Speaker 1:So just remembering, there are lots of things it's really normal so we thought because last time we ended up talking to that 20% of couples that the wife is higher drive or higher desire that we would flip it and talk to the 80% of couples that he has a higher drive and she has a lower drive and just trying to figure out what are some of the same things in a healthy way that we need to talk about in how to help those couples, because for so long this conversation has been unfair, unhealthy and just riddled in really lousy theology and really lousy, you know, pressure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you know, as we're trying to contemplate talking about this, we had a long conversation before we started talking about it, but I think it's been unfair to both.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Like that.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:This. I feel like this topic is full of emotions, full of hard things for lots of people. It seemed as Jay talking about the higher desire wife. I like to use the word desire because I think it also goes back into story. Drive is a I don't know, it's kind of a.
Speaker 1:Mechanical.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and if we're honest, if we're going to have this conversation, and I'm going to be honest, it's a male word. Hmm.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And so like and.
Speaker 1:I actually see them different and that's where I was going to go with them, like because there is a drive. I was going to go with them, like because there is a drive, and I will say, like the drive function leads to what both men and women complain about of, like sexual relief or release or whatever, where desire, I think, heads us more in terms of sexual and relational connection.
Speaker 2:So I do see them as different. Oh no, that's interesting. I don't know if I would give it that word, Wouldn't it just be sexual?
Speaker 1:functioning. Okay, this is my.
Speaker 2:Let's argue over semantics.
Speaker 1:No, I mean I think I'm coming at it from the term drive being a psychological term of a motivation, something that is moving you because of an internal function, so sexual motivation right, okay, like. But there's an internal something like hunger is a drive, right, that that pushes you to eat. So there's a place where you know we do have what they call psychological drives.
Speaker 1:That are things that move us and one of them is our sex drive, and that we do feel a push towards having sexual intimacy, having sexual relief, like, um, that is just biological right, okay, so that happens right, I guess I yeah, okay, I guess I just think of drive.
Speaker 2:There has to be a driver, yeah yeah so I've never not seen the driver as the person okay and so that's why I think I is.
Speaker 1:I see it as this internal thing driving okay people gotcha versus the external, or I mean it's still internal, but the the larger idea of I want to connect with the person who I'm being with. It doesn't just have anything to do with relief kind of idea Gotcha Okay. I do see them as different. That's at least how I kind of talk about them.
Speaker 2:That could be an interesting discussion right there it could be, because I think biologically there is and we are in no way doctors Brad probably knows more on this subject than me but biologically for many women the drive and the desire go together Correct and for many men too, that it does start as a drive and then it does kind of connect to that desire.
Speaker 1:So I think they can absolutely be connected. But I think when we're talking about like this idea, we are saying that there are well in this direction. We're saying there are wives out there who have less of that drive. There are wives out there who have less of that drive, the internal thought about sex. That doesn't really have anything to do with a relationship. It's just there, it's part of who we are as created beings, and that there are women that have less of that than their partner.
Speaker 2:And men and right.
Speaker 1:That's what we talked about last time is that men just have less of that than their partner. And men and right, that's what we talked about last time is that men just have less of it than their partner.
Speaker 2:I just always am afraid people are listening to only one and they think we're right because it happens for both genders.
Speaker 1:So go and listen to last week's, if that's you Correct, but right. No, we need to recognize it is that we often talk about this when we're speaking somewhere or whatever. We talk about this as a maximizer and a minimizer and we think about it as that. There's things, regardless of gender, that both people have to learn.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and there are. So what do you want to talk about? Well, okay.
Speaker 1:Brad's driving this one today.
Speaker 2:See what I did there.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So here's the interesting thing, right, I think and we talked about last week in Jay's book how a lot of it was on. Okay, wives, recognize that your desire is a healthy God-given. There's nothing wrong with you for having sexual desire, and I would argue the exact same thing can be said for men. There's nothing wrong with the fact that they have a higher sexual desire, that they are wanting their spouse. The problem is, I think part of the problem is that we have grown up in a culture that has said men, that's normal and you don't really have to do anything to have that be fulfilled and that that's part of a woman's duty as your wife to fulfill that. And that creates this dynamic where there's obligatory sex. And I think that's coming out of purity culture. I think that's coming out of a lot of this negative voice about how do we even interact in a healthy way around sex In a healthy way?
Speaker 2:around sex, true, yes, and I think that I find a lot of those principles work for whoever it doesn't.
Speaker 2:In my mind, there are some things to be considered and are some things that can help people understand a little bit more about their body and a little bit more about their story and what could be impacting sexual desire. But to me, no matter who's higher and lower and that can switch many times over your marriage, how we treat each other and how we come alongside each other and navigate that, it really isn't all that different. But that's my take on it. But I do think the church, christian families and homes, even secular media and such, has done so much damage in this area, honestly, to the lower drive wife, but also to the higher, to the lower drive husband and to the lower drive wife, but also to the higher, to the lower drive husband and to the higher like it's messed it all up to where we all think we're crazy, broken and nuts Like, and so I think yes, I think we do need to like talk about those things, but I do think how we handle each other is pretty universal, yeah.
Speaker 1:When you talk to wives who are feeling a lower desire, I'm curious what some of the things that come up for them are.
Speaker 2:What do you?
Speaker 1:mean Well, do you see them focusing on what do they do to change that? Like we talked about last week, there are lots of things that men could pay attention to, to change, to try to grow that sexual desire. So do you see women trying to go? What do I need to do to change this? Do like?
Speaker 1:a couple weeks ago we talked about the take one for the team idea, um, and how, how to do that in a healthy way do you see women more leaning that direction of like, how do I meet my husband's need without necessarily changing mine, um, or do you see them going? How do I get my husbands to be lower? So in that like three different ranges, I'm curious what you see the most.
Speaker 2:That's a hard. It's a hard question to answer because I don't think any of them are coming. First of all, they're all coming exhausted.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:From trying to figure it out. I don't know too many wives who haven't tried to behavior modify, to shame themselves into being interested, to show up, to try, like I don't know too many wives who haven't. They're just as confused as the other spouse. They're confused, they're hurting, they're confused, they're hurting and they think that there's something wrong with them. So I, and then also I very seldom do we get a husband and wife, or or do I meet with a wife where that's the only thing going on, right. So that's the problem, like it impacts other areas too, and I cannot. I don't think I've, in my experience, ever had a wife just say oh, how do I get his desire to be less?
Speaker 1:Right, but I think that's important to say because I think that's many husbands thought out there, because they have heard the line multiple times of that's all you think about or that's the only thing you want, and because their wife is looking at their relationship. This is one of the things I hear all the time when I'm working with couples is the husband will kind of drop like it's been forever since we had sex, and the wife will be like well, you haven't talked to me in a week and this idea where she is looking at relational things about readiness to have sex, while he's looking at sex as a ready for relationship right, and we often talk about that dynamic, um, and, and you know you're mentioning the passive, aggressive remarks that I think right often both people make that's why I'm saying it's very to me.
Speaker 2:The meeting in the middle is very similar, no matter who Right Like. Yes, there are some unique things and some dynamics that happen with both, and cultural trauma, church trauma, all the things that have impacted it, I don't know, I just yeah.
Speaker 1:Talk a little bit about that trauma. How do you see the trauma that women are coming with impacting their sexual desire?
Speaker 2:Well, it deeply impacts it, because there is something about desire in general that never had space or isn't safe, so it's really unique to them and unwinding. Why was desiring things, or was desiring things something you did by yourself? There's so much to learn about desire for them and what that looks like. Um, and talk about it, because I think it can give you clues into why desire for sex is low, for in this case, um, I think it can give you clues as to why desire is also sometimes high, because sometimes people are looking for that to remind them of where the relationship is. Um, but so it's. It's hard to kind of chalk it up other than that to me it's about how safe was desire, or acceptable, or invited, encouraged, all of those things as a kid, yeah, and I think there is a place where women have that different right.
Speaker 1:I just see, in raising girls versus boys, there is a place of expressing desire that comes out differently in just the two of them, and I think there's a lot of times where girls' desire is easier to ignore while growing up, where boys' desire tends to be boisterous and loud and they're working on a group project and they have ideas and so they want all those ideas to be heard and all that kind of stuff, and the girls kind of just are not as boisterous and loud often, and so then their desire to have something done or lead or whatever gets pushed to the side I mean, I think we could spend days trying to think through that.
Speaker 2:I'm sure sometimes it's the opposite, like it's. That's why I say it's so very unique to you and your story and how your desires have been encouraged, all of that kind of stuff. But that deeply impacts how women express or experience desire in general.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah and I think we've said this so many times that it is out of a safe relationship that desire for women can grow that are coming dealing with low sexual desire. We're going to look at where are the places where safety and connection and emotional intimacy grow outside of sex, yeah, which I think can be frustrating sometimes to men when it feels like I have a whole checklist of things that I have to do in order to have sex.
Speaker 2:Hmm, you mean like a list of things to accomplish.
Speaker 1:A list of, you know, a list of things that I have to do at home. We have to do, you know, get all these chores done. We have to. I have to have spent enough time with, you know, the kids. I have to spend enough time with you. I have to, you know. And that there's a checklist is sometimes how it can come across. I'm not saying that it is, I'm getting a look. I'm not saying that's what's happening. I hear that from men that they go okay, tell me what this connection thing looks like so I know what to do. Because I come home and I try to talk with you and we're talking about the kids and that doesn't seem to do it. So, like I do hear this from guys of going, okay, I'm really trying to connect with my spouse. I don't know how.
Speaker 2:Okay. The issue that I have with what you just said and maybe you didn't mean it this way, it sounds to me like that is tell me how to connect so that I can get what I want, instead of tell me how to connect because connection is important for me. Right the same way we tell women, sex isn't just for him, it's important for you too. When we're talking to a wife being the lower drive, spouse connection and emotional intimacy isn't just for her, it's for you too, correct?
Speaker 2:so like the way you're saying that, you got it, no is is a problem in my mind, and so if you're just looking for a to get to b, you're missing the whole point. And if that's where you are in a relationship, no judgment. I encourage you to do some story work to understand why your desire for good, healthy, emotional connection is not there.
Speaker 1:Correct. No, I totally agree. I think that is this thing where guys have not been taught about their having an emotional connection with people in general and so many of their interactions are transactional.
Speaker 2:Sounds like some wives with sex.
Speaker 1:Right, exactly.
Speaker 2:But guys don't, okay, I don't know, I'm just going to be quiet.
Speaker 1:But I think this is part I think it is part of the challenge is I think husbands are coming to emotional intimacy, going tell me how to do it so I can get what I want, and wives are kind of hearing that as that certainly doesn't feel safe, that doesn't feel connected Because we're talking about the same issue on the other end, correct.
Speaker 2:Why is your desire for connection with people not there?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's a great question.
Speaker 2:The challenge that I have between the two, though, and this isn't to say one is harder or better or whatever, but emotional connection is a very different connection, and sexual connection does deal with body functioning and how things feel and arousal. So, like it isn't exact, we can't completely equate them, which is why we have emotional connection with other people, but we should not have sexual intimacy connection with other people.
Speaker 2:Um, so like, I just think we need to be cautious. They're not exact, they're not equal, they're they. There are different things that happen that don't need to happen with emotional connection.
Speaker 1:Well, I and here's okay, I'm going to take a bunny trail just for a minute that we have had conversations with um some friends of ours that used to be in charge of a youth organization and not actually youth, young adult organization that would often get people college age together to grow spiritually, to grow together, and one of the things that we would hear is in the women's groups that they would grow spiritually together, they would grow close together, they would share together, and out of that was coming questions about sexual desire for each other as women. All right, I'm only saying this as a bunny trail, because that place of closeness, of wow. We heard each other's spiritual desires together, we heard each other's emotional desires together, we heard each other's stories together created some of that sexual desire that I think men, husbands, are often missing as a part of an important part of what actually helps create desire in most women, so that was a bunny trail.
Speaker 1:I know we don't have to deal with the other issue, but I just do think it does show how women are designed in this place of emotional safety and connection grows towards sexual desire. And I think when we're in the middle of life together and family time and all this kind of stuff, we miss that and we aren't pursuing that. And so many times I hear couples, I hear guys going well, but wait, before we got married there seemed to be all this desire but they're doing so much at that time in terms of growing connection that just stops.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think don't get married if you don't, you're getting a salty version of me today. Don't get married if you don't want to grow the connection for the life of your marriage.
Speaker 1:Right, okay, but because we're talking higher desire guys, I don't want to miss too much of this. Like the answer is not just okay, guys, we have to emotionally connect with our wives better. I think that is a huge part of it. I'm not taking that out. I think it is a missing piece where men often do not know how to emotionally connect and so then they are not getting to that place of forming desire. Is there things that wives should be thinking about or doing, if they're the lower desire spouse, that they should be working on in looking at growing their sexual intimacy in their relationship?
Speaker 2:Well, sure, but, as I said, it's not going to help and potentially just cause more hurt. If you don't understand why it's a struggle, right Like, yes, there are, and I mean definitely for any woman talk to your doctor. There could be hormonal imbalance issues or whatnot, and so it is certainly a conversation to have. However, I think you know, yes, there are things that in any relationship, we should be willing to do to work on the different connections that are there. What you specifically need to work on, I think it's very unique to you. You know we did talk about the take one for a team, but for the team, for a team, no for the team. But you know I'm getting a look now, but the reality is like it is very unique to you and I I hesitate to just give blanket statements of just show up, just you know I don't.
Speaker 2:I'm not saying, just show up we yes, I do talk to women a lot of times about, you know, our brains can take on so much and we can run on so many things at one time.
Speaker 2:It's very common for us to have so many things going on in our brain and I do think sometimes we need that switch, like we need to be kind of diligent about like, okay, this might be a time, or maybe we've planned a time, or this might be a time where we're going to have the opportunity for sexual intimacy. So like actually switching and trying to make a cognizant, like I don't have to think about all those 50 things that need done right now, because I do remind women like our biggest sexual organ is actually our brain and so I think understanding how much our brain and the stress and the things we have on our list impact that, that is definitely something that's universal and I think every woman can think about. As far as why their desire is a struggle, I do think that's an individual journey, but I think I think it's it's okay, right, like it's there's. No, it's okay, but we don't want to stay there.
Speaker 2:We want to, you know, work towards our spouse and that's not working towards a number not working towards a standard that everybody else says, but a place where you two both feel like, okay, we're meeting in the middle here, we're both trying to work on the things that we maybe struggle with didn't have a desire for growing up, weren't taught and it's really interesting because you say guys weren't taught how to do emotional connection. Well, who teaches you how to have sexual connection Correct, like that's not something, even the best of parents, who maybe talk about sex and talk about what that looks like and stuff. Well, nobody's going to teach you sexual connection.
Speaker 1:Correct.
Speaker 2:So we're already at a deficit because right emotional connection can be taught. I think, sexual connection. Even for the best of parents, with the best of intentions, it's really hard to teach a lot of that. No, you're right. So like just understanding, like we're both trying to meet in the middle, we're both trying to get good information, understand what's happening inside of us for both of us, and then we're trying to find somewhere in the middle where we're both like, okay, this is us and this is good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think most guys just need to hear that there is a desire to move towards that middle. I think so often what they hear and I'm not saying that this is what even said, but what they hear is you have to deal with it on your own and you have to lower your drive, and that's not my problem. We're not even having time to connect, so why would we have time to have sex? And I do think this place of wanting to come to the middle is an important part of the conversation.
Speaker 2:Okay, but that requires a guy to express that he wants to come to the middle too.
Speaker 1:Correct.
Speaker 2:Right, like that's what I'm saying, like I just don't feel I feel very passionately about this that it takes both people. So in my opinion I know there's walls built up with this there's all kinds of hurts.
Speaker 1:There's tons of hurt and harm.
Speaker 2:Oh, and I honor that. But have someone help you navigate it, because the reality is as much as the higher drive. Husband wants to hear that you desire him and want to move towards it, that you don't want to just embrace this life of low desire. I think that low desire spouse wants to hear that you know you want to meet in the middle. You want to be understanding of how hard it is Both. Right, it's potentially hard for both, but also, at the end of the day, this isn't all a marriage is, and so we also have to work with that dynamic, like it's a very special part and the Lord gave it specifically for marriages, but it's not the only part. Right, and if we don't feel like our hearts and who we are are being held well and cherished well by our spouse, all of this we're talking about is going to be really hard to meet in the middle.
Speaker 1:Correct, and I don't think we can have this conversation without talking about one of the harms of purity culture. One of the things I felt like I was inadvertently taught was that sex and marriage was going to be available any time that I wanted it. Like that was that was communicated. I don't get that message because sex isn't by yourself. No, it's not.
Speaker 2:So like that's physically impossible. Just saying Sometimes I'm glad I didn't grow up with these church messages because I'm just like what in the world is that Okay?
Speaker 1:but like and I've said this here before but one of the one of the standout purity culture messages that I remember was at a large Christian gathering, hearing a big name Christian leader talking about getting desired off of somebody who was, in his his mind, dressed inappropriately and going home and getting getting aroused off of somebody who was dressed inappropriately and going home and turning all of that energy to his wife and never in that story and I don't think, even like afterwards, I didn't even think about about how the wife would feel about that situation and this crowd of 50,000 people were cheering about how he took his sexual desire home and it's like, oh God, there's so many yuck there of what that communicates.
Speaker 1:Yuck there of of what that communicates. But I think to me as a teen and like growing and trying to figure out what sexual desire meant, it was this idea that you know you're supposed to have have all the sex you want at home, so that you don't have any, any desire anywhere else, which is ludicrous and well, yes, but, and that didn't work for him.
Speaker 2:No, of course it didn't, because he should have had it all on the other side so that he wouldn't have.
Speaker 1:Of course. Anyways, moving right along, no but I think those unhealthy messages have seeped into how most men, christian men, think about. But actually I'm going to even go most men period because I think this idea of readily available.
Speaker 2:Well, because mainstream also promotes it that way, and I hear you in that, and I know that that's damaging and wrong. But there's also some horrible messages in there for women.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, Right, Absolutely there are.
Speaker 2:And you know, if you don't give it all that your husband needs, he's going to stray and it's your job to keep him satisfied. And you know when you think about that that doesn't sound very fun. No, not that. Sexual intimacy fits many different emotions for us, it's not always fun. Many different emotions for us, it's not always fun. I think sometimes it is in a place of care of wonder. There's all kinds of emotions that go along with it and I kind of get irritated with Christian authors when we say it has to be these three things all the time.
Speaker 2:Because, I don't know, and I share this and I maybe I'll just be vulnerable and share this, like as the last couple years of our home life have been um, hard to navigate, hard to figure out. I know we once had a conversation where we said what if sexual intimacy right now is just um what is the word I used, I can't remember now. What if it's just like a place where we get to care for each other?
Speaker 2:and right, right like it's. I'm going to be honest and hopefully this won't sound weird, but there was not a lot of space for fun and spunky right in that stage. Right now yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, and yes, we're somewhat. I think now we have a little bit more space for that. But right, like the Lord designed it to be, if you want to call it glue, which people do, because glue is sticky and gross, but anyways, like it serves many purposes and so, like I think, just remembering that let's not chalk it up to be so one direction of like this is what it serves. No, the Lord created it to serve so many things and keeping that in mind, I think, is helpful. Anyways, that was my sidetrack, but I think women are under this. You know a lot of misinterpretations as well, correct and expectations of that, and I don't know I'm hearing them on this end. I was hearing them as I was a youth pastor, like they were kind of still prevalent, sure, because I guess dating goodbye. I think that came out when I was a youth pastor. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Anyway. So they were still there. So that would say, actually purity culture is very prevalent, but they like what does that teach women about their role in sexual intimacy?
Speaker 1:and then then we have the, the liberation I will like, and it just gets even more confusing I will say, like in my mindset, which doesn't really make a whole lot of sense, but my mindset was that you, as my wife, would desire it as much as I did, and so that my coming home turned on with that idea that I was taught was-.
Speaker 2:Such a great example.
Speaker 1:Was like welcomed and going. Oh yes, of course I would want that. I think that was never actually contemplated that desired differences would be involved in a relationship.
Speaker 2:But I think it's really important to share from our own story that I also thought that.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So imagine you're coming home fitting what you've been sold.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:I'm not right. So imagine what that feels like something is wrong with me, because I was sold and was very excited, so like there wasn't. I mean, there was, sure, some normal nervousness about something you haven't experienced before, but like there were no qualms or issues with me with that. And then it was like oh, I enjoy it when we're having it, but the rest of the time I could take it or leave it like and I know that sounds harsh, I don't mean it to sound harsh, but I'm just trying to be honest and so then, and I understand, you felt like you were fed a lie, but so were women, right, right, it's like okay, I'm struggling to want it, so what does that mean about me?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's so important to say is I think both people are coming to this difference feeling rather broken, and so do I, and I think we need to figure out what speak out of our hurt Right, both of us Exactly right, and I think we need to figure out what empathy of both sides of that actually looks like.
Speaker 2:And remembering that neither side is right or wrong. Right and and probably for both sides I've heard this like I. I literally wished I could have been you. Oh, yeah, and, and, and that my desire would be like off the charts and I think many men or higher drive spouses whichever wish their desire would dampen.
Speaker 1:Oh, every guy that I talk to who have problems with unwanted sexual behavior have vehemently prayed for that. Just remove my desire.
Speaker 2:I could be wrong, but I would think, even if that hasn't been a part of the story, I understand that amps it up even more, because there's the shame, because in marriage, marriage the desire is okay and you're told that, but outside of marriage you're told it's not so, but, like I would imagine, they'd at least want it to be less, so that they're not causing a dynamic or experiencing their own hurt. Um, so yeah, I don't know, it's just, and I think for young couples getting married, my heart hurts because I think the church is starting to come out of some of these lies, starting to inform people well, or as best they can. We can't inform every premarital couple of every potential, but we can certainly speak to. Here are some. If other things come up, come back and talk to us, right. But I think the younger version of you and me, right, we weren't ready to enter in with empathy because we had been sold something that we felt like we deserved.
Speaker 1:Correct. There was entitlement around it, there was anger around it.
Speaker 2:Well, the church tells you, do it right and it'll all be amazing.
Speaker 1:Right and there was a whole lot of feeling broken. That was. You are correct.
Speaker 2:Like, when we feel broken, we end up showing anger, we end up expressing anger, and that doesn't help any of this well, yes, anger, but the reality is anger is just a cover for a very deeper emotion of I'll just blanket it as hurt, yes, and pain, yes, um, and that is part of the fall like we did choose life outside of eden and like we can't, we can't say that that's this, these are the consequences, right, but we're trying to move towards each other as spouses. So how do we hold all of those differences that life entails where sexual intimacy is concerned well with each other?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's really important, and just the desire to hold that. And this is the thing. Right, that doesn't actually mean that we automatically have sex. It doesn't mean we automatically say yes. It doesn't mean we automatically don't. Right, exactly right.
Speaker 2:And I mean, maybe I'm just passionate about this in general. I'm so, like, done with I. Just I'm so done with people and like I will love you dot dot dot as long as this happens, as long as this. Yeah, like that's just not the way the Lord intended it to be, and I think, as marriages, we have so much further to go in holding each other well, do Brad and I always do it, absolutely not because we're human and you know we're just human. That's where it ends. But, like just in everything, there's so many life changes that happen over the years of your marriage. And how can you enjoy life well together and meet in the middle about as many things as possible? Hold it well, you're here on this, I'm here on this. What does that look like for us to do it?
Speaker 1:well, that's so many things and I just think, yeah, there's just a world of hurt out there and yeah, this is a really good thing to talk about and I hope that it sparks some conversations for you, and I hope that this gets a place where maybe you can see your spouse differently in where these desire differences are coming from and that it might help you move towards the middle. And I think that was exactly why I wanted to talk about this topic is I do think there's just so much hurt and so much frustration in our perspective of it that sometimes we miss where the other person's coming from.
Speaker 2:I think we often are, yeah, so I'm just giving looks over here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're going to make them want us to do a YouTube video with all those looks.
Speaker 2:Oh, I could just send you, you like just selfies?
Speaker 1:of all my looks I think this is a really important conversation and obviously we went a little bit longer than our normal podcast, but I'm hoping because my saltiness. Enjoy some of that conversation. I'd love to hear from some of you. If you want to reach out to us at help at stillbecomingonecom, we would love to hear your thoughts and we'd love to hear what it's been like for you on your journey of trying to figure out what meeting in the middle looks like.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:So until next time I'm Brad Aldrich.
Speaker 2:And I'm Kate Aldrich. Be kind and take care of each other.
Speaker 1:Still Becoming One is a production of Aldrich Ministries. For more information about Brad and Kate's coaching ministry courses and speaking opportunities, you can find us at aldrichministriescom For podcast show notes and links to resources in all of our social media. Be sure to visit us at stillbecomingonecom and don't forget to like this episode wherever you get your podcasts. And be sure to follow us to continue your journey on Still Becoming One.