Still Becoming One
Still Becoming One
Are We In A Sex Recession? With J Parker
The headlines say married sex is in decline, but the real story lives inside our homes: glowing screens, heavy schedules, chronic stress, and a quiet confusion about what “healthy intimacy” should look like now. We sit down with author and podcaster J Parker to unpack the data behind the so‑called sex recession and then move past the stats into practical fixes couples can actually use.
Special Guest J Parker from Hot Holy Humorous
Kate's guest episode on The Sex Chat For Christian Wives Podcast
Welcome to the Still Becoming One podcast. We are Brad and Kate.
SPEAKER_02:In our more than 20 years of marriage, we've survived both dark times and experienced restoration.
SPEAKER_00:Now, as a licensed marriage counselor and relationship coaches, we help couples to regain hope and joy.
SPEAKER_02:We invite you to journey with us as we are still becoming one.
SPEAKER_01:Let's start the conversation. Hello everyone. Welcome back to Still Becoming One.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, welcome back.
SPEAKER_01:We are so excited to have our good friend Jay on today. Jay Parker from Hot Holy Humorous and Christian Wives. Sex Sex for Christian Wives podcast. Nope.
SPEAKER_04:Sex nope. Sex Chat for Christian Wives. Right.
SPEAKER_01:I was gonna get that right. Sex Chat for Christian Wives podcast, um, which had an awesome, amazing guest on just a couple weeks ago. So I'm biased. Um, but Kate got a chance to to uh chat with them a couple weeks ago.
SPEAKER_03:For sure.
SPEAKER_01:And so uh, you know, honestly, I saw an article that Jay you put out just a couple days ago and weeks ago, and went, wow, okay, we need to talk about this. Um, because it's just such an important topic. Um, and and just the title of of your article was why are we having less sex? And so I just reached out since we're friends and reached out and said, Hey, let's let's have you on the podcast. I'd love to chat about this because I think it's such an important topic. So welcome. I'm so glad you're here.
SPEAKER_04:Well, thank you for having me. And I'm excited to talk about this topic. Uh, just so we can help people have not just more sex, but better sex. That's always the goal.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I love that.
SPEAKER_02:For sure. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So your article kind of starts by citing some studies that say that basically over the last what 20 years, uh the percent of couples who report having sex about once a week has dropped pretty significantly.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Tell us tell us a little bit of what you found in your research.
SPEAKER_04:Well, it's interesting because I have seen a bunch of articles in the last few years talking about us being in a quote unquote sex recession. And so I was kind of wondering what that was about. But a lot of times when I opened those articles, they were talking about singles not having sex as much. You know, uh, you know, for us Christians, it's like, well, that's not necessarily a bad thing. Right. Um, but this one was focused on married couples. And what happened is two researchers uh connected with the Institute for Family Studies, Brad Wilcox, whom some people may have heard of, and Grant Bailey, they looked at the general social survey data and they looked at married adults. And so they said that that number fell from 59% of married couples reporting sex weekly between 1996 and 2008, down to 49% between 2010 and 2024. But when I looked at that and thought, okay, well, this is in America, and how many couples are in America and this and that in the data, and it's like that's like five million couples not having sex weekly who you know previously did.
SPEAKER_01:In that 10% drop.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that's a huge amount. And uh, they gave some ideas of why that might be happening or one specific idea, and then I started thinking about all the reasons I've heard and all the things that I have studied over the years and gave some other suggestions.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Okay. I mean, uh, there's a couple of things in here. One, some people are gonna be sitting here and going, huh, that's really interesting that it dropped over the the those periods of time since 2010, it's dropped significantly. And some people are gonna be nodding their heads and you know, yep, I get it. And other people, just to be honest, I think some other people are gonna be surprised that you're saying almost 50% of couples still have sex on a weekly basis.
SPEAKER_04:That's true. That is very true. There are a lot of couples out there who are nowhere near that amount. Though it's interesting when I'm asked how often couples should have sex, I actually ran down all the data and stuff on this for a presentation I did on something else. And essentially, weekly is about what's right to kind of keep the intimacy and the connection going. And so that's usually what I say is that's the goal. That doesn't mean that there aren't times in your marriage where that's not what's happening. Right. There's certainly been times in my marriage where that's not happening. There are times in my marriage when we've been, you know, three, four times a week, yay us. But but the thing is just kind of as a general goal. And so if there are over 50% of couples having sex weekly, to me, that's still a little low.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, for sure. Yeah. It's an it's just an interesting thing to, I mean, I feel like in in the areas that we have been honored to serve, like this is something we talk about a lot. As you said, Jay, like you don't go anywhere and not get that question of how often. I feel like we get that every time. And um, you know, Brad and I try to give a lot of freedom in that answer, not that it has to look a certain way. But then when we think about that it's declining, it I thought some of your um, you know, potential reasons that of things that could be impacting that were really, really interesting. Some some were actually positive, I thought. I'm not sure. Like I thought the female empowerment, believe it or not, is a really good thing that women feel like they can say yes or no, even though we don't want to see that necessarily affect it in the negative. That is a cultural shift that I think needed to happen because the church and society as a whole, that wasn't necessarily what I would hope that that leads to what you were saying, Jay, of having better sex, right?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that was my goal in pointing that one out. So I really thought about that. I thought one of the reasons you're having less sex is because some women have finally rejected the idea that they owe their husband sex whenever, you know, whenever he wants it. And or they're saying, This isn't working for me. He's always coming and he's having a great time and he's having orgasm and I am not, or I'm having pain. And uh, we have a couple of times had people on our podcast talking about sexual pain. I am sure you've had clients who mention this, and sometimes the husband doesn't even know that she has been through real pain and discomfort because she didn't feel like she could say it. She thought, well, I owe him this and I just need to be here and do it. And as women feel more empowered to say, no, God made sex for me too, yeah, and this needs to work for me, then they can say no. No, I'm not doing sex like this.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:Which I I yeah, I agree with you. I think that's actually a really healthy reason for a decrease. That would probably be one of the healthy ones on your list. Tell us a little bit of what you found or what you've thought is some of the reasons that the statistics are dropping.
SPEAKER_04:Well, I'll start with the reasons that the the reason the researchers gave, which is um our electronic devices, basically.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:And so they were they were saying two things are happening there. We are distracted by our phones, our TVs, streaming, social media, whatever it is.
SPEAKER_03:Sure.
SPEAKER_04:But they also said because we have these devices, people are procrastinating bedtime. And since most people approach sex as something that happens at the end of the day when you get in bed together, if you're putting off going to bed, then you're even more tired to get there and you just roll over and go to sleep.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:So I pointed out sometimes what's happening on those devices is uh more problematic maybe than the device itself. For instance, sure, there's just a lot of porn use. As I've said a million times, when I was growing up, you had to seek out porn. And these days you have to block out porn. Right, it will come find you if you do not take measures to avoid it. Right. And so a lot of people have been trapped in that. A lot of people grew up in an era when porn was considered sex education.
SPEAKER_03:That's true.
SPEAKER_04:And so they are going there. And for me, two things happen with the porn porn, and maybe y'all can speak to this with your experience. But what I've heard is that on one hand, you have some men who will kind of get their sexual satisfaction from porn, and so they're less interested in having sex with their wife. I deal with that quite a bit, actually, with the higher desire wife community I have. The other one that I hear a fair amount is that his uh the intensity of what he wants, uh it becomes more perverse, more insistent, and all of that because it's fueled by porn, and then he kind of voraciously goes after his wife, typically objectifying her, and she understandably resists. Or if she knows he's using porn, she's saying, I don't have sex with you while you're using porn.
SPEAKER_02:Right. Understandably, yeah, right for sure.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think that that last part is something we certainly do see. I mean, it can certainly change our mindsets of what it is that we're seeking in in a variety of ways. It can also um certainly put in a understandable couple issue where the couple is going, hey, this isn't okay, and so then aren't engaging in sex while he's trying to work through that betrayal side of things. So I I think that's entirely correct. I think there's a lot of times where I I always kind of challenge guys on this because I think it is way too easy of an answer to say I'm going to porn because my wife won't give me sex. That that doesn't actually answer the question, right? Because, and they all know it, is they're vastly different. And there are many, many, many times where people will have sex in a healthy, committed relationship and then turn around and use porn, right? Like then the connection still happens. So if it was, oh, I'm only doing this because she won't have sex with me, then that it that doesn't that doesn't actually answer the question. Um, because it's just not true. So I think that's a too easy of an answer. So then we have to look at the other side of just because you know we're not having sex doesn't mean porn is the only factor. I think it can be a factor for sure, um, in in that formula. Um many, many guys that I work with would say they would be very happy to have more sex with their wife, but that doesn't necessarily solve their porn issue. Um yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So yeah, I would I would say as far as let me clarify a little bit what I'm saying about, I don't think it it kind of sometimes goes the other way as far as him finding his satisfaction in porn. I'm not saying that that's that's he's uh because he's not getting sex. In the case that I'm hearing is I'm hearing a lot of women who are very willing, and what they're they're experiencing sometimes is a relationship with an actual person and what it requires to arouse her, to go through that whole process, to be intimate, the vulnerability, all of those things that are involved in a real life sexual relationship is harder than just going and taking care of yourself in a few minutes. Sure, sure. And so some guys will just end up on that shortcut and um and they get and they get used to that, they get used to the the uh consumer view of sex. And so I go to porn and I get whatever I want, and I don't really have to work at it the way I have to work at it with my wife.
SPEAKER_01:Right, right. There's no threat of rejection, there's no threat of I did it wrong, there's no threat of, you know, and yeah, it is just one-sided and easy.
SPEAKER_02:But you know what Jay was saying, I don't know with the higher drive wife that the rejection is necessarily there, although that can probably still play a piece even if it's you can feel rejected even if someone is receiving you in some ways. But but the whole um of it takes effort, right? It takes attunement, it takes time, it takes all of those things. And when you are just taking care of yourself, that the all of that is not present. And so, yeah, I could see that. That's that's an another interesting piece that definitely I could see playing a part of it. Like it does take time and it does take effort. And usually each person is very different. So that dance you have to do to figure each other out, as you said, to arouse each other, all of that is it is it is the way God intended it, but it also is takes time.
SPEAKER_01:I just want to call out though, the I agree with all that. I totally agree with that. I think there's some truth in that, but I want to call out the between the two things that we just said, there's a little danger that I would at least want to call out because I think for a long time it's been assumed, oh my goodness, if we're not having sex, it must mean that my husband's using porn.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And and I want to call out that that is not necessarily the case. There's a whole lot of other reasons here and that we can't oversimplify this and just say, oh, nope, you uh you aren't, so he's gonna go get it somewhere else, which leads to that empowerment issue that we said of you know, holding women responsible because it's not, it's not their responsibility alone.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, there's a lot of benign reasons for people not doing this. I mean, even the the devices, the electronic devices, that can be a very benign thing you're doing. You know, you can be watch, you can be streaming the chosen, you know. Yeah, yeah, and uh, or whatever you're doing. And so, but it still is interfering with your real life relationships. And so some of the other reasons that I put down is for instance the parenting overload. We hear this all the time from people. And this is when I talk to um mom co-groups, one of the main questions I get is is essentially how do we find time with our overwhelming schedule with kids? Yep.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yep. And it's a great question. I I saw something the other day because I was actually reading a little bit about the cultural change of parenting that had has happened in the last 30, 40 years, where you know, I remember there was this parenting thing that said you're home from school, or certainly in the summer, go out and play. I don't want to see you until lunchtime, or I don't want to see you until dinner, and just sending the kids out. And parents' moms typically at that point had tons of time to do the laundry and do the things that needed done without having to chase a kid and be around them 24-7 and watch everything that they do, and that shifted right since at least the 2000s. It's been expected if your kids are playing outside, there has to be a parent watching them all the time, right? There has to be monitoring, there has to be this place, and they're right, like then it takes this thing of we have we have no time to do anything that needs done, let alone to connect with each other.
SPEAKER_02:I don't I you say like watching them all the time. I think there's also a correlation with the amount of things that kids are allowed to do. I mean, Brad and I have always been outspoken about this. When our kids started entering that phase of being old enough to participate in different things, we certainly wanted that for them. We chose to have at that time would have been three kids and then eventually four. So we made the decision very quickly of like you get to do one thing at a time.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Because there's three of you. So that's already three things that dad and I have to figure out how to get you to, how to all those kinds of things. Um, and very few times we would make exceptions to that, but we really stuck to that on through to high school unless they could then drive themselves to the many different things. Um, and I don't know about you, Brad, but I feel like that protected a lot of our time. And we did that even before our marriage was in a good space. And I see a lot of parents committed to so much stuff, which I get it. It's fun and it's whatever, it gives you your community. There's all aspects to it. I don't know. But for us, that was really important, and I think it really helped us. And I found we still had plenty of places to drive our kids to, so it's not like we were, you know, told our kids you can't do anything. It we were driving around quite a bit. Yeah, we had to like work out a schedule every week of like who's driving kids where.
SPEAKER_01:That's exhausting, right? And you add that to your phone, that's your entertainment and your distraction and your downtime. Yeah, I understand why couples have left less time to connect to it with each other.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah. Part of this parenting overload piece is is also that a lot of us don't have extended family near. But as you were talking about, okay, I'm a bit older than y'all are, so I definitely remember the thing of you get home from school, I had a snack, I watched a show, and then it was like, Goodbye, I'll see you when it the lights go outside or whatever. And and I think back, and there are hours that my parents did not know where I was. I mean, I was in the neighborhood, I had a bike and that was it, but they really didn't know where I was. But the thing about that is at the time that there were not many dual-income families around us, right? And so when I rode through the my bike down the neighborhood or whatever, I saw other people. And like my mom would see other kids and that. So if I got into trouble, there was somebody who would be like, Where do you live? Let's go over here. That's not as true in our neighborhoods these days. Yes, and you also just don't have the extended family near, so you don't have the aunts, the uncles, the grandparents who are helping you do that. And it really is useful to have other people you can rely on to kind of care for your kids. And even those things of dividing out, there was a a uh twin boys who played baseball with our son. We did the same thing, by the way, one activity at a time. Yep. And sometimes the seasons would overlap and we'd allow that, but other than that, it was one activity at a time. But there were twin boys who played on my son's baseball team, and if the parents couldn't make it, the grandparents showed up.
SPEAKER_03:Yep.
SPEAKER_04:And so how how wonderful is that? Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:You have to have some of that support. And I think so many families don't.
SPEAKER_04:But we didn't have that when when we were raising our kids, we didn't have extended family nearby who could be by.
SPEAKER_02:What did you guys do?
SPEAKER_04:How did you know that? What did we do? Yeah. Well, we we I mean, there were two of us, and so we did you had two kids, two of us. So divide and conquer as much as possible. But there were even times where one of us couldn't go because of a job situation or this and that. And I know, I know there are there are adults who fondly look back and say things like, My dad never missed a game. And I just want to say, I missed some games. Yeah, and my kids okay. And actually, my other son did a whole swim season where he was like, Mom, I just want this to be my thing. And I was like, Okay. And I think I showed up to one thing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Well, when our kids did were old enough to do our school sports teams, which was great. Um, we did we said we're doing we will try to make it to all of your home games. That was our goal. One of us or the two of us, but away games, we very few times did we go unless they were actually super close to where our school district is. So, like we just said to the kids, like, it's really important, we want to watch you, but this is what we're able to commit to, right? And I think the challenge is parents worry that that then teaches your kid you're not a priority, but they need you at other times too, not just at sporting events, right? They need you when they've had a rough day, when they've had a really exciting day. So good. Like, and so I don't know, Brad and I just chose different healthy boundaries. We felt like they were healthy. I'm not sure our kids could probably tell you their thoughts on it, but I don't know. I don't think going to everything, being at micro at every micro event is is the answer. I mean, we're not talking about their big life-changing events, we're talking about, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, little things.
SPEAKER_02:So I don't know. I don't think that's the answer. And I but I do wonder how much that is robbing people of yeah, time in their marriage. Yeah. But also probably giving them the excuse they may want to also not be investing in their marriage. Like I think that happens a lot as well. We just throw ourselves into the kids and then we don't have to think about connecting and all that kind of stuff. I don't know. Some people very intentionally want to. I think sometimes people use it as an excuse too. So I don't know.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I think I had someone when my kids were young tried repeatedly to talk me into being room mom. Oh and almost made it sound like if you're not, if you're not invested, if you're not there, then your kid's not gonna get the education he should get, and you're not gonna know what's going on, and you're gonna be, you know, and I was just like, I can't I cannot add one more thing. Yeah, and I also think, you know what? If the difference between me being able to have intimacy with my husband and not is saying no to being room mom, you know what? I I think it's important for me to invest in my marriage so that now I have a strong foundation for those kids. Correct. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:Correct.
SPEAKER_04:I would agree.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, we actually just a couple of uh a month or so ago interviewed one of our daughters on this of like what was it like growing up in a marriage positive house and what were the impacts? And you know, she was honest, like there were times that we knew that you two went away or went out, and I was irritated with that as a kid, but now I can look back and go, oh yeah, okay, that was okay. Like it was fine, that was probably a good thing, right? And uh, you know, it it is hard, it is a sacrifice to go. I'm going to prioritize my marriage, and that does impact the kids, but I don't think it's a negative impact. I I think our kids need to know that they don't have to be first all the time, right?
SPEAKER_04:Yes, that's so important. I sometimes think the way people will if you enroll your kids in everything and you're but you know, because of fear of missing out, your kid's gonna miss out, and you have feel like you have to be at everything and and you're constantly there for your kid, but then you're not really investing in your marriage, right? Then you're teaching your kid that they're the center of the universe, and you're also telling your spouse You're not, yeah. Right.
SPEAKER_01:You know, one of the places that I noticed that it's so simple, but it it's profound is pickup time for kids' events. It used to be, and I remember this, like it used to be I'd get done practice and I'd call my parents and go, can you come pick me up? And I'd wait for 15 minutes, whatever, for them to come get me.
SPEAKER_02:Dude, they lived right next to the school. You probably didn't even have to wait 15 minutes. My parents lived in the boonies. I usually waited forever. We went to the same school, but I did not grow up in a neighborhood.
SPEAKER_01:The kids waited. That's the key, right? We waited for them. Now it's if you're not there right when something ends and they won't necessarily tell you when it ends, then you're being a bad parent and you're imposing on somebody else. So you'd better get there 20 minutes early and wait.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, the amount of time parents are sitting and waiting. Yeah. No, it's true.
SPEAKER_01:It just shows the priority shift.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I this is gonna make me feel like such a bad parent. Someone's gonna laugh at this, though, out there. So there would be moms in the elementary school line who would get there 30 minutes before school ended so that they could be at the very beginning and pick their kids up right away. And I remember I and I lived in the same neighborhood as our thing, but I remember thinking now I'm waiting until school ends, and then I'm going, because you know what? That's when the line moves, right? Seriously. When your kid is in the last third of being picked up, the line moves.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Well, the only time we did it, we made our kids rode the bus. The only time we did it is like doctor's appointment or something, and then you need to be.
SPEAKER_01:And I was like, these people are they're they're just well they're giving so I'm like, wow, their energy time to their kids and so early, yes. It was yeah, it's not going somewhere else.
SPEAKER_04:So some some people I know did this, and they also said that was like their time to go sit there and do meditation or read or something. That's fine. If that's better than me, something they carved out. But if the idea was gonna go, some of these were just like people just sitting in their car and like talking to other moms and this and that. I'm thinking, yeah, do you have nothing else to do? Because I can think of all kinds of things to do.
SPEAKER_01:So, one of the other things that you mentioned in the article is the increased stress.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I I mean, I think we all know it. We feel the increased stress, like we talk about it. How do you see that impacting couples and certainly impacting sex?
SPEAKER_04:Okay, well, it's currently impacting me. I will say that in every marriage. Um, before we got on, I was telling you some of the stress uh stressors in my life. I've got um some couple of family members with health issues. Uh, my son recently moved in, which has been great. He's uh doing really well in college, but that's been a change. Yeah. And one of my closest friends is having marital difficulty. So all these things going on have just taken a lot of attention and added a lot of stress. But your stress may look different out there. So, whatever it is, part of that is that you just don't have the same energy and focus that you need. And a lot of people will say, well, sex is a stress reliever. And it's like, yes, that's entirely true. But also, you have to be able to get there to get the relief. And if your attention has been drawn to all these other things, and also cortisol is the stress hormone, and cortisol is known to dampen sexual interest.
SPEAKER_01:I think that's really interesting.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Well, because your body is saying this isn't a priority right now because all of whatever is going on, that's how God designed our bodies. But I do think in this climate of just life and all different kinds of things, sometimes our body is playing tricks on us. Sometimes, like we've got to learn to bring it down. Sometimes you really are in that space, and it's okay that it's just not an option.
SPEAKER_01:I but I think it's so interesting in just the timing, and I I think a lot of people think, oh, well, stress is a stress or sex is a stress reliever. So we should be having more if we're stressed, but it like just recognizing that that's not how your body works, that desire is going to be lower because of that.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I think Kate's so right that it's your your biology is basically saying this is not the priority now. And and it's not distinguishing what kind of stress your body just feels stress and it says, okay, we need to focus on the things that are causing you stress. Well, you know, that's entirely reasonable if you're if you're way back when and you're your stress is there's a war going on, or you know, there is an illness or whatever. That's entirely reasonable. We, however, have created oftentimes an atmosphere of chronic stress. And we, you know, things like you finish your job and you bring a lot of it home with you instead of being able to say, you know, that's done, and now I'm I'm coming home and I'm just gonna let that go. Yeah. Or, you know, going online and looking at the news from all over the world can be so stressful. And it used to be you just knew what was going on in your community, and maybe you'd hear a rumor about something going on way far away, but you really knew you couldn't do anything about that. Now we're inundated with this. And I've heard this sometimes said as um, you we get panicked that someone somewhere else is living wrong. And it's like, okay. Always the case. Yeah. It's always the case, but you know what? Maybe the the answer is not to stress so much, but just to pray and let go. Um, but just wherever we're bringing in stress that maybe we don't need to have, we should look at our lives and ask some questions of, you know, is this uh is this serving me? Is this something I really need to be going through, or is there something I can let go so that I can be more present in the moment with my spouse and with my life?
SPEAKER_02:I think too, you know, we work with a lot of clients on self-care, right? And there's a correlation with understanding your story and realizing as children we were doing the best to survive and do as well as we could in our families, but learning how to take care of yourself isn't usually something that is cultivated. And so a lot of times we're trying to bring that back in, like understanding your body, what you feel, and how do you take care of it? Because I think a lot of people grew up and the stress just piles and piles and piles, and they don't actually know how to regulate their body, which is hard. I'm not saying that it's uh an easy journey, but I also think we all have to recognize, you know, you said like that pray and let it go. I think because sometimes people don't even have a clue how to let it go.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And so talking about, you know, how do you identify what you feel in your body, then how do you take care of that in a healthy, positive way, have good, healthy stress release, um, I think is vital. I think the other thing that I know Brad and I talked about a long time ago. Well, it feels like a long time ago, but when we were trying to do a lot of that, our home was very difficult, stressful, a lot of trauma just going on. Um Brad and I had talks about okay, is it okay that sex doesn't look quite as adventurous as I think sometimes also the Christian community can put a lot of pressure on people that it like because God created it is wonderful, we should always be engaging in this really adventurous, amazing, whatever that looks like for you as a couple. Brad and I had to have the conversation because not only was our home stressful, but they're all young adults or teenagers. So there's not a lot of time that kiddos, you know, that you're not, you don't want to be blatant about it, all of these kinds of things. And we said, maybe sex is just comfort right now. And maybe a lot of times more than not, it looks the same every time we engage, if that makes sense. Um, not a lot of effort on wearing something sexy or doing all of this. Like, right, we found a rhythm that worked for us in what that looked like, but we were honest about it and had the conversation for right now. Yeah, this is like all we have to give when we come here. And it still was a real, I don't know, Brad, you can speak from your perspective. Um, I think I was anxious about that, that that would not be enough or okay. But I was really thankful that it seemed like you were able to meet me in that place. Um, and so I think sometimes owning that when it's really stressful, it doesn't have to look like the most amazing times where you've spent an hour preparing and all of this stuff when life has really hard things going on.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I don't know. What do you think?
SPEAKER_04:I think that's so good. I'll just drop that in before Brad says anything.
SPEAKER_01:Uh no, I I think you hate this analogy, but No, are you gonna bring out the menu analogy? Yes, we have talked about that sometimes sex is fast food, sometimes it's fine dining, and sometimes it's the middle of the road restaurant that is you know somewhere in between. And I think when things are stressful, there's not a problem that you skip fine dining for a while.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. There you go.
SPEAKER_01:It it it is, and and it's healthy and it's good, and there's there's yes, it's okay.
SPEAKER_02:We just didn't have the mental capacity. I know I didn't for the fine dining very often. And to me, fine dining when you have a bunch of people in your home who can understand what's going on. It's weird. It's weird, and so it the only time it could happen would be late at night, and that just Brad and I were done at that point, right? So, like I think also just honoring what can it look like in a positive way that you both are understanding and not have all this pressure attached to it.
SPEAKER_04:But I think you also have to take some steps. It's interesting you're saying that people don't know what it looks like to let go. And I laughed at myself at even saying it that way because that's so true. It is that people do need to figure out how to be in the moment despite some stuff going on. And for me, you're right, it's not like you just let it go, boom, and I just dropped it and it's done. In fact, years back, um, you're gonna laugh at this. What happened actually is we were uh supposed to meet up with Paul and Lori Byrley for lunch, and we were running late, and I was not happy that we were running late, and I was very worried. And so we were on the way, and he's driving, and he said, Don't worry. And I and he was saying as usual, stop worrying, don't worry, blah, blah, blah. And I said, You don't, I don't literally have no idea how to make that happen. I said, You say that. I said, I have no idea. I said, What happens is it's like I have these pop-up boxes, you know, the pop-up windows. And if I try to click it down, it just three more pop-up, you know, and it just that's what it is. And so I can be doing it, but I can't, I can't catch up. I can't just stop worrying. And so I think as far as the let it go, I think it really isn't just you let it go. It's what I learned is that I needed to face that the stress and say, this is really stressing me out. And also acknowledge that. Yeah. And then say, okay, what is stressing me out? What can I do about it? What can I not do about it? What's the worst thing that could happen here? What is I needed to process through that whole stress. And for me, some of that comes as part of the prayer with God. Sure. Is that I'm processing through all that stress. And then a lot of times I realize I can't get rid of it all. Some of it's gonna remain, and that's okay. But I can take what I can off my plate. And then when I come with my husband, I can say, you know what? When when we leave, I'm gonna basically try to set this down here. And I know when we're done, I'm gonna have to pick it back up.
SPEAKER_02:Right. Exactly.
SPEAKER_04:But I can set it down for time, I can focus on him, I can focus on us. We can have the sexual intimacy, and that will also give me some more energy, strength, um support. Yeah, you know, all those feelings to be able to then pick that back up and continue on. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I think that's really an important way of dealing with that stress, that we can't just turn it off. We can't say, okay, stop stressing now. Right. And I think a lot of guys need to hear that message because we guys tend to be a little bit more compartmentalized in some of that thinking and can just kind of go, okay, I'm gonna turn that off. Now, that doesn't mean stress doesn't impact us. It does, but there does tend to be a little less of the I'm worried about the grocery list while I'm supposed to be sitting with my wife, you know, kind of thing. Like there's a little less of that kind of intrusive for many men.
SPEAKER_02:You pick the grocery list.
SPEAKER_01:I I was just thinking of things that pop in your head, you know, while you're trying to be with the ever pop in your head?
unknown:No.
SPEAKER_04:Kids. That's the thing that I hear most women say is the most intrusive.
SPEAKER_01:It's kids. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. That must be nice to not have those intrusive thoughts.
SPEAKER_01:I I don't want to say that they never happen. They they do. And I think I think that's where stress really does impact men, that all of a sudden it's they're thinking about job or the chores that they have to do or the thing, like there is that place where that's becoming intrusive. And I think that is pushing some of that this decrease, even in that. So I I I'm curious as we're kind of wrapping this up, is what's the fix for this? Like, if you're sitting here recognizing, wow, yeah, our our rate of sexual intimacy has decreased, one, is that a problem? And two, what do we do about that?
SPEAKER_02:Great question. I'll let Julie start.
SPEAKER_04:Well, yeah, I mean, I do think it's good to ask, is that a problem? For instance, we mentioned in the female empowerment thing, maybe you were having sex five times a week because you thought you had to have sex every time you wanted to, and now you're down to once or twice a week, and the sex is better and good for you. Yeah. You know, that's a so that's not a problem. That's an improvement. Uh, if now you're having quality sex. But on some of these others, that obviously, you know, if the issue is pornography, you need to be addressing that. And I know that Aldrich Ministries is a great place to come and get help with that. Um, but that's something that certainly needs to be addressed immediately. Some of these other things we've talked a little bit about, things you can do to move stress off your plate. But I think the core issue is kind of asking the why. Is this a rough season? Is this an improvement? Is there something deeper going on? Maybe we're having less sex because the sexual trauma from my childhood has you know come back up and is, you know, and that needs to be addressed. So even as we talk about these five million couples or the 10% drop, they haven't all dropped for the same reason.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_04:They're all have their own stories. Yes. And so you have to ask what your own story is so that you know what the right next step is. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Do you think that that drop is really one person in the couple dropping, or do you feel like it is both? Or a mix?
SPEAKER_04:Yes. That's not helpful, is it? I d I don't know. I think that it's a little of both. I think that there are a lot of couples that are just not having sex as much as they want to because life is busy, because they're, you know, they're not communicating as much, they're not getting date nights, they're not getting connection time to feel like they can be together. And then that's a couple issue.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_04:I certainly think the imp the explosion of pornography usually affects one spouse more than the other. That's that's what I've seen. And I'm not, well, of course it affects the mate, but I'm saying it's usually one person of the two who's having a major porn issue.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Right. Well, and then the betrayal can also greatly impact that. Um, yes, for sure.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. I I think, you know, obviously there's an interesting other side here that I think sometimes the decrease comes out of, you know, we're both stressed, we're both in a busy season. Yep, we understand this, but I think a lot of times I guess one of the things I saw in this is wow, that's a lot more couples that somebody's walking around with some frustration. That my spouse wants a lot less sex than I do. And that that tension can become a conflict point. It can be a something that creates a lot of challenge for couples.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I think it's been very interesting to hear how a higher desire spouse and a lower desire spouse explain their experiences because both of them have, I think both of them have frustration, but it's different. The lower desire often feels like they are pressured, yeah, or they are objectified, or they are just not valued for who they are, but more for their sexual selves. And in turn, the higher desire spouse often feels that they are not valued fully because their sexual selves are not part of that. Yes. And they feel um they feel lonely a lot of times, honestly.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. So both of them are going through some hardship that, you know, kind of working through that those differences, that gap would really help both of them.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And yes, I think you're spot on. I think both are dissatisfied, but for different reasons. Um I think that's actually important.
SPEAKER_02:Both, I always said it, both feel very broken for very different reasons. Right? Because neither one, I mean, there may be truth in how they like say, oh, they may point fingers in the conflicts, but the reality is inside both of them feel, what the heck's wrong with me? Why don't I want it more? Why don't I want it less? Why do I always write? Like, why does the world tell me it should be this way and it's not? Like there are a lot of I reflections going on inside. Well, reflections is a nice word, it's probably contempt. Um, that I think people need to recognize it's not what's coming out, but that is often what is what is happening on the internal. Um, and I think it's important that we honor that that's there, that's there for a reason. Um it that message didn't necessarily come from sexual content as a young adult or a teenager, but it comes from something. Um, it's reflective of other things you feel in life about different things. And so it's important to honor that and understand where it comes from.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:To be able to move in a different space and not have that keep chasing you.
SPEAKER_01:I I think that sexual contempt thing is a is a really big part of this, right? There's a place where both sides are probably feeling some loss in in this space.
SPEAKER_04:For sure. You know, I think of it as the higher desire wife or higher desire wife, higher desire spouse. You can tell who I usually work with. The higher desire spouse often feels like, why don't you want me? Yes. And the lower desire spouse feels like, why do you want me only for that?
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_04:Yep.
SPEAKER_01:100%. And we hear that dynamic all the time. And then it sounds like the answer is, well, if you just want me for, you know, connection and let's cuddle and have other things going on, which is fantastic, those are really important, then the higher desire wife or higher desire spouse ends up feeling like I I don't want to say used, I think it feels lost in that as well. Of like, yes, we can have lots of connection, but if it doesn't lead to sexual intimacy, it's like, wait a minute, where where's that going? So I can feel that side.
SPEAKER_04:Both of them are feeling like there are parts, there are parts of themselves that the spouse is not accepting.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, that's a good way to put it.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:So I I mean, obviously, I think what you're raising is a a study that's showing there should be lots of conversation going on about frequency and that couples should be having a conversation of like, hey, how do you feel about our sexual frequency? And go, is it something that we should work on? Is it something that we should move towards each other on?
SPEAKER_02:But I think you need to remember that the three of us have worked really hard on making that safe. Yes. Right? And it has to be a conversation that we can sit and hear the other person and honor it, even if we're sitting there thinking I would like something different and we need to meet in the middle. Like the goal isn't that you just get to stay stuck where you are and I get to stay stuck where I am. We want to meet in the middle, but many times I know when we work with couples, that conversation is not safe to have because it feels like one person is going to, well, I shouldn't say one person, each person is gonna do their own thing, whether one is sort of um wanting to really like be aggressive about the conversation and one is shutting down, or like it it is a hard conversation to have because they've tried to have it before and it doesn't hasn't gone well in the past. Yes. So the biggest thing I can encourage you, which is difficult because you're going to have to calm down what's going inside of your body, either calm it down, or you're gonna have to tell it not to shut down. I need to listen, I need to hear, I need to understand, not just be listening to respond with my side of what's happening.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I love what you said on our podcast, Kate, about just being curious. And I think that attitude of just being curious can change everything. And um, and just really, yeah, not trying to think about how am I gonna respond and what do I want, but try to understand. We talked about understanding the why as a couple. Try to understand your spouse's why. Yep. Why are they wanting more sex? Why are they wanting less sex? Yes, why are they saying that the quality of sex is not working for them?
SPEAKER_01:So important. Yep, so important, right. And and it is not just one thing. Um, and there's not just one answer to that, and I think it is an important conversation, and more people need to be willing to have it. And I know it's really hard. Yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure. Wow, well, Jay, I so appreciate you uh coming on and letting us talk about this so important topic. I'm sure it's gonna bring lots of questions. Where can people find you?
SPEAKER_04:Well, they can find everything about me pretty much at one place, hotholyhumorous.com. And that humorous is spelled the American way, not the British Canadian way with that extra we don't need that you. So hotholyhumorous.com, and you can actually find information there about our podcast as well, my Higher Desire Wives community, my books, just all kinds of stuff there.
SPEAKER_01:And we we need a lot of couples to uh hear material in the past, and I know there's a lot of people who are getting a lot of help and encouragement.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. And I I really encourage your audience if you have not listened to Kate's appearance on our sex chat for Christian Wives. Uh you can find that episode on anywhere you can find podcasts.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we'll put a link in the uh show notes. Well, we appreciate you coming and uh joining us on Still Becoming One. Until next time, I'm Brad Double Turch.
SPEAKER_02:And I'm Kate DoubleTurch, be kind and take care of each other.
SPEAKER_01:Awesome. Well, thank you, Jay.
SPEAKER_00:Still Becoming One is a production of Alchich Ministries. For more information about Brad and Kate's coaching ministries, courses, and speaking opportunities, you can find us at Aldrich Ministries.com. For podcast show notes and links to resources in all of our social media, be sure to visit us at still becoming one.com. And don't forget to like this episode wherever you get your podcasts. And be sure to follow us to continue your journey on Still Becoming One.